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So I've been looking around and it seems that there is no existing solution for a kickstart on the DOHC's. A silly idea that's occurred to me is the possibility of modifying the starter with an external foot lever. Setting aside the other modifications that would need to be made to go battery-less, does this sound like a completely ridiculous idea to anybody? Heh, I need to take the time to pull off my starter or find diagrams.
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Administrator
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The only way you can effectively install a kick starter on a DOHC, is to swap in a SOHC engine. It is a bolt in swap. However it does not matter which engine you use, neither will run without a battery. The charging systems do not have permanently charged magnets, so they need electricity from somewhere (battery) to charge the magnets before the system will start producing its own electricity, which is needed to operate the ignition, and lights.
TOOLS
Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."
1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)
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Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would weigh in as I've seen you on most threads and you seem quite knowledgeable.
I've seen that information before, and while I entirely understand that the traditional kickstart mechanism from a SOHC would not work, my particular question is this: if you pulled the starter motor out and had, for instance, a hand crank installed, would you be able to turn the engine over or is there an additional mechanism I am missing? I hope I make some form of sense.
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Administrator
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Why not just cut a hole in the alternator cover, and put the crank on the end of the crankshaft, just like an old Model T, or International tractor?
TOOLS
Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."
1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)
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Administrator
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Well, the starter gear does employ a clutch already. Whether you are turning it by electric motor or your foot I don't see what difference it would make. But you'll be cranking right at the crankshaft. Not sure how that will relate ratio-wise to a typical kick start bike.
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Administrator
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Oh, and not to rain on your parade, but if you're chasing kick start in order to go battery-less, the ignition systems on these bikes won't support that. Though I'm sure it's possible to overcome, there no aftermarket shipper for that.
But, if you know how to fix the ignition to run without a battery, go for it. Or if you just want to kick start your bike, go for it. Could be a very cool and fun project to undertake.
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That's just what I was hoping to hear though! As for the rest of the system, couldn't you get away with a small capacitor to steady out power supply and replace the rotor with a permanent magnet type? Or is there another part of the system that requires a battery charge to start?
On an entirely unrelated note, one of my carb floats appears to be leaking. I know that I have one of the older style adjustable floats already from a previous owner, is there an issue with using these instead of the full plastic ones that came with my 81? The older ones are a lot easier to get ahold of and I don't terribly feel like dumping money into the stock Keihin carbs as I plan to upgrade down the road.
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Administrator
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You've got the hollow floats? Pull it out while it's still "sunk" and check for gas inside of it. If you can't see it, you may be able to hear it sloshing around. If you're lucky enough to see it dribble out, then you know where to patch your leak. JB Weld is the only thing in my experience that holds up permanent in fuel. A very thin skim over a long crack or a small dab over a pinhole. Don't wanna make your float too heavy. Though you could adjust if needed.
Capacitors. I know a lot of the XS guys and Triumph guys are having good success running capacitors and no battery. It's definitely doable. These engines don't know they're a CB750, it's just a lump of aluminum and steel. I haven't seen anything aftermarket that is a bolt-on type thing to run a twin cam ( or single cam) CB battery-less. The stock ignitions systems don't even want to let the bike rev if the battery is even just weak. It could definitely be done, I just don't think the aftermarket is there for it. But due to the increase in popularity of the twin cam, bobbers, cafes, etc. it wouldn't surprise me if it's in the works somewhere.
Job 1 is gonna be to sort out the kick start. Once you handle that, I'd see what the XS guys are doing and see what you can adapt to the Honda. I've seen battery-less XS's that fire up instantly with zero headlight flicker at idle.
Dang, you've got me interested in this in a big way. I don't need need another project. :( At least until after 2027.
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Administrator
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Oh, I meant to ask. What is you situation on tooling? Can you weld aluminum? Can you machine parts( lathe or mill)? Or are you just open to the idea of hiring custom machine work done?
Your idea of driving the original starter gear struck me as a good place to start. I really don't think it would be very difficult to flip the starter drive around and have it jut out of its original position. I think the case there would need some fairly decent reinforcement to handle being kicked, but that should be easy to accomplish. Again, no clue if you'll have the needed leverage at that point or not. But sacrificing a side cover is a fairly cheap experiment if you can do the work yourself. If the leverage seems OK, then just fine tune the design as you go.
Cool project man. I wish you success and hope you keep is in the loop. This sounds fun.
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This post was updated on .
I unfortunately don't have any aluminum welding or machining experience (one major reason I'm finding a place with a garage right now). But I do have family with tools and experience, luckily. I was considering having something that bolted in where the starter motor goes now, honestly. I'll have to take a closer look when I actually have a dry day, ha. And when I get necessary maintenance items out of the way. I had to replace my brake lines and get a new master cylinder, and I seriously need to pull my valve cover and check clearances, adjust my cam chain.
Also, I actually have used jb on one or two of my floats, I forgot. I suppose I'll just have to pull it again and see if it's leaking again or if I have more dirt in my float needle seat. Shoulda installed the inline filter I got already. Of course, it may also just be the one adjustable float I have could be set wrong. I really need a full day to take care of things.
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