Help me pick an electronic ignition kit

[wbradshaw6]

Hey guys,

I am replacing my electronic ignition. I have found 3 kits and want to get some feedback from the community as to which one you guys recommend.

Pamco Kit: $259.00



Dyna S: $279.95



Cycle X: $349.95

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cycle-X-High-Performance-Ignition-Honda-cb750-69-78-cafe-race-/200652257180

My mechanic recommends the Dyna kit become he is very familiar with it. He uses it on all of his Harleys and all of the CBs that he has built in the past. From reading forums, it seems that most people are using the Pamco ignitions. And the Cycle X info claims that it is the best and puts the other 2 to shame. My bike is a CB750, 836 big bore kit, aftermarket exhaust, running pod filters if that makes any difference. Please chime in with your recommendations. Thanks!

[TOOLS1]

I just use Iridium spark plugs. I have friends that have both the Pamco, and the Dyna-s, and I really can't tell any difference in how they run from my bike with the Iridium plugs.
Just curious, why are you replacing your electronic ignition?
TOOLS

[wbradshaw6]

I want to get peak performance out of my bike. I understand it is 35+ years old but if I am going to spend my money on anything, it might as well be my bike. I am not sure when my ignition was switched over, it was already electronic when I bought the bike, but I am slowly going through upgrading everything.

[Murrayf]

well pm me when you remove you current one i can always use another electronic setup

if its good

[TOOLS1]

What brand of electronic ignition do you have now, and why do you think a new one will be better?
TOOLS

[shinyribs]

"Electronic" ignitions won't make any bike run better unless that bike is already not properly tuned. They have no affect on the strength of the spark,it's solely what triggers the coil to light the spark plug.

The only advantage of an ''electronic'' ignition over a set of points is you never have to adjust them once they are installed. There are no moving parts,therefore no wear,so the dwell never changes. Which in effect retards your ignition timing.

What they are calling an electronic ignition has no electronics in it. What they are is a magnetic pulser. The two modules have a set of contacts inside them. Those contacts close when the pickup ,which houses the magnet, passes by them and pulls them shut. No electronics,just magnets and mechanical contacts. If the ignition on your bike now is working then you have nothing at all to gain by buying another one of these style units. It is pretty much exactly what you already own.

If you are looking to upgrade your ignition system for a stronger spark hotter coils will do that. They will actually increase the secondary voltage. These ignitions you listed only trigger the coils.

If you want a true electronic ignition that will actually improve your ignition system Dyna makes one and so does MSD.There are probably other systems out there,but these are the only two that I know of. I don't have any experience with the Dyna ignition boxes at all. I do have some experience with the MSD boxes,but not on my own bikes. But I have used several of them in auto's which are the same product,just packaged for the different applications.

What the MSD box does is actually modify the way the coils fire. MSD stands for Multiple Spark Discharge. Instead of one spark each time the bike fires it will spark the spark plug multiple time creating a longer "spark timing event'' and a more complete fuel burn. The higher in rpm's you get the less amount of multiple sparks you get (dues to laws of physics/time constraints) until you eventually are back at square one and only getting a single spark again. Basically,low rpm and mid rpm power you'll likely feel a difference,but top end is pretty much the same as stock with a single spark. Now,these boxes are CD boxes (capactive discharge) which means they will help store spark energy inside their own capacitors and disharge that energy to the coil to help coil saturation. What that mean is instead of only being supplied with 12 volts off the battery ( though in real life,with the charging system running, it's more like 13.5-14 volts) the coils are being fed with a higher voltage. What that voltage is we don't know. The different manufacturers are not going to divulge their secrets on this. Coil saturation is talking about the amount of time it takes for the ignition coil to absorb the low voltage applied to it ( battery voltage) and transform it (coils are basically nothing but a transformer) to the secondary voltage that the plug sees. Since the CD boxes provide a greater primary voltage it takes a much shorter amount of time for the coil to complete saturate and produce full secondary voltage.

For example, lets say you have a set of 50,000 v coils on your bike. That would be their rating at full saturation. But at 8,000 rpm's things are happening so quickly the coils dont have time to complete saturate so you dont get your full 50k volts. You might only be getting 35k or 40 k volts. But with a CD box you are much more likely to see full coil saturation. Of course,the capacitors in the CD box itself will eventually ''run out of time'' and you will start losing saturation once again...but...unless you are running at WOT for long periods of time this is most likely not the case. Short bursts of 5-10 seconds of WOT they will keep up with nicely. So,while the MSD boxes may not be able to keep producing multiple sparks at higher rev;s,they do still have definite real world advantages.

That said,these boxes are complete stand alone devices and they do not require an ''electronic ignition'' to operate. You can run them just as well with a set of points as you can any other type of coil triggering device.

I used to have a dual point distributor in a big block Chevy with an MSD box. I twinned two 50k volts coils and it would literally melt the electrode off of spark plugs. I over did it with the combined 100k volt secondary voltage. I went back to a single 50k volt coil and it was completely reliable. Spark plugs can only take so much. The harder you work them the quicker they wear out.

There is nothing you can do to add power that will not give up longevity somewhere along the line.

 If spark plug life is not a big concern,and you want max power from your setup,go for the big guns: A hot pair of coils,a CD box and the trigger of your choice-Pamco,Dyna-s,stock points...etc. If you want the best bang for your buck, IMO, keep the ignition you already have and add a hot set of coils. Just my $0.02.

[wbradshaw6]

Thank you for that reply, that must have taken forever to type! The ignition kit from CycleXchange is a multispark system, but after reading your post I will most likely wait until my system fails before making the investment if there is not going to be much improvement in performance. Thanks again man!

[shinyribs]

You're quite welcome. When it comes to hot rod stuff I'm always ready to talk!

[kandrtech]

The PAMCO uses magnets and hall effect sensors/transistors.  It is certainly an electronic system.  No mechanical switches at all.  It is certainly an electronic system.

I am curious though, what contemporary system uses mechanical (via a magnet) switches?

I am also interested in your definition of "electronic", as it seems to differ from the generally accepted definition.

[shinyribs]

True,I over-simplified for the sake of brevity. They are still just basic triggering devices,nothing there to modify the ignition signal in order to enhance performance.

[Matt Story]

CycleX carries a few electronic ignitions.  They carry a line of ignitions for SOHC designed by a company called PowerArc.  PowerArc has developed ignitoins for a bunch of different applications.  I learned of them when I was searching for an ignition for my continuing Guzzi project.  I haven't bought anything yet, but I was looking for an alternative for the Dyna that was there before teardown (which I replaced several times in 25K miles).  So I am not a big fan of Dyna.   One big difference I found going from points to electronic on the Guzzi was the elimination of point float which effectively allowed the bike to run right up to the published redline which was basically impossible with the factory points.  But I digress....

The PowerArc marketed by CycleX boasts a triple spark at all rpm's which I think is a unique claim.  Also they have an optical pickup rather than hall effect sensors and magnets which should have a much higher precision.  The kits come with coils and wires and no external box to mount.  They allow you to either select 1 of 4 advance curves or program your own.  I think its a superior product - it comes a price though.  Look toward the middle to the bottom of this link.  http://www.cyclexchange.net/Elec%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm  Also alot of general ignition knowledge to be gained there in their tech article too.

Hope that's helpful.

Matt

[C5Paul]

I respectfully disagree with your statement that you will not get better performance, or that you will give up something else to get it. The Cycle X ignition (and ones offered by other companies using that technology) is absolutely superior in every way to any magnetic ignition...no matter who makes it!


We manufacture kits using PowerArc components under the name C5 Performance. CycleX offers the same basic kits but we focus on different markets. There are several of us out in the world designing applications using optic technology and multi spark coils from PowerArc.

I dont want to write a 2 page article so here are a few things to consider:

I agree that most "electronic ignitions" are simply electrical switches to replace points.
What you failed to mention is that points are inaccurate at high rpm, they get dirty, they wear out, and they do nothing to overcome the issue of "coil saturation" and the bad effects that has on coil performance and life.

We program our ignition to have reduced coil operation at low rpm and increase the saturation as rpm increases. This saves power, reduces coil heat, and increases reliability WHILE increasing performance.

All magnetic based ignitions suffer from up to 14 degrees of inaccuracy due to heat, surrounding metal objects, and the inherent limits of magnetism. We use twin optic beams to resolve this limitation.

Coil design limits saturation time, and we use section bobbin coils along with other technologies to multiple spark long after an MSD no longer can. Did you know that MSD only multi sparks until 3,000 rpm.
Heck, our bikes are just getting to the sweet spot at that rpm!

I'll discuss more if anyone wants to know about it, but will post a new discussion. I just wanted to stick my head in here and tell everyone there ARE better options but we are not found in a Parts Unlimited or JEGS catalog.

Thanks