Is my regulator no good ??

[Smasshed]

I have a 75 CB750F cafe style. It's was already a project I bought it. I have already built a new complet wiring harness for it. I bought a set of polished handle bar controls off a 02 Vulcan. Besides the different color codes (Honda/Kaw), it's was & is all good. My mechanical REGULATOR seems to be the problem. Other than being  36 yrs old, it looks good inside & out. The problem is I have 12.? Coming out on the ground post.. Regulators go bad like that? Current on the ground side is not rt, rt? I'm pretty good with everything else. Electrical I'm ok, but I'm not familiar with mechanical regulator. Ok 2nd question.. If I was to buy a up grade reg/rectifier are they easy to install?. Do they wiring diagram?

[sgtslag]

Well, no offense intended, but I don't think your reading is valid.  The meter's test leads should be across the battery posts only; make certain that the Negative post is solidly connected to the frame of the bike -- set your meter to Ohms/Resistance, and check between the Negative battery post, and the engine block, which should read less than 3 Ohms.  The Regulator should keep the voltage below 15 VDC, when the engine is at 2k+ RPM (below 2k RPM, the alternator will not put out enough to charge, and the battery will drain).  Is your battery fully charged (should read at least 12.6 Volts, at rest -- being off of a charger for a couple of hours = at rest)?

There are aftermarket Rectifier/Regulator's available, made very heavy-duty, beefier than OEM, with OEM connectors (plug and play).  If you need one, we can point you in the right direction.  Let's try some troubleshooting first, though.  Get back to us when you verify the battery is fully charged; it has a good connection between the Negative post, and the engine block; and whether there is 13+ Volts across the battery terminals with the engine at 2k+ RPM.  If you prefer, download the FSM from the Home Page, and follow the troubleshooting instructions in it.  Cheers!

[Smasshed]

None taken, but the deal is that the bike isn't running. I'm in the middle of wiring everything in. As I'm wiring everything I do have voltage on the system. And what im saying is that basically when the key switch is turned on it sends power to my regulator (rt?). Well I'm getting power through the neg side of regulator,& in turn power on the case of reg & of course anything it come in to contact with. My questions "a regulator shouldn't do that" ??????

[sgtslag]

The Regulator is a combination of two circuits:  a Rectifier, which converts AC (Alternating Current from the Alternator) to DC (Direct Current, which is what you get out of any battery); and a Regulator (this circuit keeps the voltage coming out of the Rectifier from getting too high, damaging everything electrical on the bike, including the Battery!).  The Rectifier/Regulator is all one piece.  It is connected to both the Alternator (yellow wires feeding AC into it), and the Battery (typically Red and Black wires, which supply DC to run the bike, as well as to charge the Battery -- while running, the electrical energy to operate the bike comes from the Alternator/Rectifier, with the Battery as a back up, only used when the engine is running too slow to supply the needed energy, or when the current draw exceeds the Alternator's output -- this leads to a dead Battery, as it is no longer being charged by the Alternator, and it is supplying current to operate the bike, even at highway speeds; too many accessories can kill a brand new, fully charged Battery...).

The Rectifier/Regulator, as I said, is connected to the Battery.  Therefore, yes, it will register voltage, from the Battery.  The current, however, will not flow through the Regulator, it is a one-way current flow only, to the Battery, not from it.

If you are re-wiring your bike, I would suggest following the OEM wiring diagram.  If you deviate from that, there is nothing for anyone to go by to help you in troubleshooting issues that may arise.  A custom wiring job would require a hands-on technician to troubleshoot it for you, by manually tracing out each, and every single circuit...  They charge by the hour, remember.


Wiring harnesses may still be available.  Again, if you deviate from the OEM wiring, the schematics in the manuals will be useless in servicing your bike.  Proceed with caution.  Cheers!

[sgtslag]

Check your ground connections:  the case of the external Rectifier/Regulator should be grounded.  All external metal surfaces should be grounded.  This avoids accidental shorts, and electrical fires.  Also, the wiring should be done with the Battery removed, to avoid possible electrical fires.  Bad things happen when any battery is shorted...

Once you complete a particular section of the wiring, connect the Battery with a 30 Amp in-line fuse, to prevent excessive current flows, and fires.  This will simplify troubleshooting should a particular section have a problem.  Cheers!

[Smasshed]

I'm just using the batt for traceing lines. It is too OME spec.s .the batt in this case is just replacing the voltage that would be coming from the Alt . And it is pass voltage through to the neg post. So no ur telling me that no voltage is supose to hit the regulator??? Voltage goes into regulator right? Weather it's from the Alt or a batt. Voltage is still voltage

[sgtslag]

Voltage runs through a circuit, like water through a pipe.  With voltage, it has to be a closed system to flow.  That means that voltage flows from the negative terminal of the battery, to the positive terminal, literally (electron flow).  So, yes, there will be voltage on the negative terminal, but it depends on how you are measuring.  Circuit "Ground" is a reference point; it could be the positive terminal of the battery, or the negative terminal, but the negative terminal is usually used as the common, "Ground" point, from which all voltages are measured (black voltmeter lead goes here, red lead wherever you wish to measure for voltage).

Voltage is actually a measure of pressure difference:  12 Volts of pressure, is measured between the positive battery terminal, and the negative battery terminal.  If you measure between either battery terminal, and a cold water pipe (literally, Earth Ground), you will measure 0 Volts (not a complete circuit, unless you connect one of the battery's terminals to a grounding rod).  Earth Ground, and circuit ground, are not the same, but they can be -- if your circuit ground (reference point for making voltage measurements) is connected to the Earth Ground.  On vehicles, Earth Ground is not connected, so all "Ground" references, are only for that circuit, which happens to be the Negative terminal of the battery -- it is only a reference point.  If you put the black voltmeter lead somewhere else (other than circuit ground), you may see voltage present, but it may not be a fault (known are a "voltage drop", which is beyond this discussion).

Connecting a battery to the AC input on the Rectifier/Regulator input will supply voltage to the output side of the Regulator, but it is not a recommended method of testing/troubleshooting.  Without getting into the Bridge Rectifier circuit details, I would not recommend it.  Try what I wrote before, about using a 30 Amp, in-line fuse between the battery's Positive terminal, and the bike's Positive battery cable.  This will be much easier to test, and troubleshoot.  Once you get the bike wired up, you can then test the Rectifier/Regulator in a straightforward manner.

To test the Rectifier/Regulator, start the bike.  Place a voltmeter across the battery terminals.  Run the engine at ~2500 RPM:  the voltmeter should read somewhere between 13+ to ~15.5 Volts.  This will tell you two things:  1)  the alternator is pumping out AC, more power than the bike is consuming, which is charging the battery; 2)  the Regulator circuit is keeping the voltage from getting too high, preventing it from damaging the bike's electricals, and from destroying the battery, itself.

==============================================================================

Basically, you can ignore the explanation on how electricity, and Ground connections work, and just hook up the battery with the in-line fuse, for testing.  Make all voltage measurements only with the black lead connected to the Negative battery terminal.  Anything else (black lead somewhere other than the Negative battery terminal) is just a Voltage Drop measurement, and it won't help you.  Cheers!

[Smasshed]

Thanks for all the useless info. I bought a new regulator/rectifier . Wired it all in. Everything is working fine now.

Thanks

Patrick Bazar

Communications engineer 

Low voltage contractor 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2012, at 11:21 AM, "sgtslag [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Voltage runs through a circuit, like water through a pipe.  With voltage, it has to be a closed system to flow.  That means that voltage flows from the negative terminal of the battery, to the positive terminal, literally (electron flow).  So, yes, there will be voltage on the negative terminal, but it depends on how you are measuring.  Circuit "Ground" is a reference point; it could be the positive terminal of the battery, or the negative terminal, but the negative terminal is usually used as the common, "Ground" point, from which all voltages are measured (black voltmeter lead goes here, red lead wherever you wish to measure for voltage).

Voltage is actually a measure of pressure difference:  12 Volts of pressure, is measured between the positive battery terminal, and the negative battery terminal.  If you measure between either battery terminal, and a cold water pipe (literally, Earth Ground), you will measure 0 Volts (not a complete circuit, unless you connect one of the battery's terminals to a grounding rod).  Earth Ground, and circuit ground, are not the same, but they can be -- if your circuit ground (reference point for making voltage measurements) is connected to the Earth Ground.  On vehicles, Earth Ground is not connected, so all "Ground" references, are only for that circuit, which happens to be the Negative terminal of the battery -- it is only a reference point.  If you put the black voltmeter lead somewhere else (other than circuit ground), you may see voltage present, but it may not be a fault (known are a "voltage drop", which is beyond this discussion).

Connecting a battery to the AC input on the Rectifier/Regulator input will supply voltage to the output side of the Regulator, but it is not a recommended method of testing/troubleshooting.  Without getting into the Bridge Rectifier circuit details, I would not recommend it.  Try what I wrote before, about using a 30 Amp, in-line fuse between the battery's Positive terminal, and the bike's Positive battery cable.  This will be much easier to test, and troubleshoot.  Once you get the bike wired up, you can then test the Rectifier/Regulator in a straightforward manner.

To test the Rectifier/Regulator, start the bike.  Place a voltmeter across the battery terminals.  Run the engine at ~2500 RPM:  the voltmeter should read somewhere between 13+ to ~15.5 Volts.  This will tell you two things:  1)  the alternator is pumping out AC, more power than the bike is consuming, which is charging the battery; 2)  the Regulator circuit is keeping the voltage from getting too high, preventing it from damaging the bike's electricals, and from destroying the battery, itself.

Basically, you can ignore the explanation on how electricity, and Ground connections work, and just hook up the battery with the in-line fuse, for testing.  Make all voltage measurements only with the black lead connected to the Negative battery terminal.  Anything else (black lead somewhere other than the Negative battery terminal) is just a Voltage Drop measurement, and it won't help you.  Cheers!

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[sgtslag]

Patrick,

Sorry.  I had no idea you knew anything about electronics.  

Glad to hear you got it fixed -- that is all that really matters.  Enjoy your ride, they're a "classic" for a lot of good reasons.  Cheers!

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Smasshed [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for all the useless info. I bought a new regulator/rectifier . Wired it all in. Everything is working fine now.

Thanks

Patrick Bazar

Communications engineer 

Low voltage contractor 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2012, at 11:21 AM, "sgtslag [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Voltage runs through a circuit, like water through a pipe.  With voltage, it has to be a closed system to flow.  That means that voltage flows from the negative terminal of the battery, to the positive terminal, literally (electron flow).  So, yes, there will be voltage on the negative terminal, but it depends on how you are measuring.  Circuit "Ground" is a reference point; it could be the positive terminal of the battery, or the negative terminal, but the negative terminal is usually used as the common, "Ground" point, from which all voltages are measured (black voltmeter lead goes here, red lead wherever you wish to measure for voltage).

Voltage is actually a measure of pressure difference:  12 Volts of pressure, is measured between the positive battery terminal, and the negative battery terminal.  If you measure between either battery terminal, and a cold water pipe (literally, Earth Ground), you will measure 0 Volts (not a complete circuit, unless you connect one of the battery's terminals to a grounding rod).  Earth Ground, and circuit ground, are not the same, but they can be -- if your circuit ground (reference point for making voltage measurements) is connected to the Earth Ground.  On vehicles, Earth Ground is not connected, so all "Ground" references, are only for that circuit, which happens to be the Negative terminal of the battery -- it is only a reference point.  If you put the black voltmeter lead somewhere else (other than circuit ground), you may see voltage present, but it may not be a fault (known are a "voltage drop", which is beyond this discussion).

Connecting a battery to the AC input on the Rectifier/Regulator input will supply voltage to the output side of the Regulator, but it is not a recommended method of testing/troubleshooting.  Without getting into the Bridge Rectifier circuit details, I would not recommend it.  Try what I wrote before, about using a 30 Amp, in-line fuse between the battery's Positive terminal, and the bike's Positive battery cable.  This will be much easier to test, and troubleshoot.  Once you get the bike wired up, you can then test the Rectifier/Regulator in a straightforward manner.

To test the Rectifier/Regulator, start the bike.  Place a voltmeter across the battery terminals.  Run the engine at ~2500 RPM:  the voltmeter should read somewhere between 13+ to ~15.5 Volts.  This will tell you two things:  1)  the alternator is pumping out AC, more power than the bike is consuming, which is charging the battery; 2)  the Regulator circuit is keeping the voltage from getting too high, preventing it from damaging the bike's electricals, and from destroying the battery, itself.

Basically, you can ignore the explanation on how electricity, and Ground connections work, and just hook up the battery with the in-line fuse, for testing.  Make all voltage measurements only with the black lead connected to the Negative battery terminal.  Anything else (black lead somewhere other than the Negative battery terminal) is just a Voltage Drop measurement, and it won't help you.  Cheers!

1979 CB750K
1993 Kawasaki Voyager XII

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NAML

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--
Bruce L., aka, SgtSlag
[hidden email]

[Piute]

                         Well if nothing else all that info turned on a few lights in my head,
                                          nothing like a good refresher TANKS