*Permanent* Oil Filter... Hmmm...

[sgtslag]

http://www.kandpengineering.com/

I have not used one of these, but I recently found a posting about it, on another M/C forum.  I read through their claims, and I was genuinely impressed!  They seem to have done their homework.  The one thing that really made me sit up and take notice, was the fact that their permanent filter will not violate the manufacturer's warranty on a new car/bike/whatever.

If you read through the Cleaning page, as well as the FAQ page, you will find some interesting information.  I was skeptical, before reading their stuff, but I kept thinking about K&N's permanent air filters...  There is a lot of similarities, as far as concept, and performance issues.  Anybody have first-hand experience with these permanent oil filters?  On an air-cooled engine, they may be quite useful for additional cooling, not to mention increased oil flow rate, and reduced drag on the engine through the oil pump.  Very interesting item.  Cleaning it every time I change the oil is a downer, but with extended oil changes, it is not as much of a concern (even with a safe, 7,000 mile change interval, using synthetic and/or analysis, I would still be doing it once per season, unfortunately).  Cheers!

[Re-run]

Always going to be some sort of downside. In this case, it is the cleaning and the cost. I don't know about this filter but I have seen others going for $100. Thats a lot of disposable filters but I suppose if you ride ALOT and change 3 or 4 times a year, I suppose it would pay for itself in about 10 years.
I wouldn't use it on a new or rebuilt motor though.

[sgtslag]

I checked:  the price for the S13 filter (would fit a stock CB750K, and my Voyager) is $79 MSRP.  That's a lot of green, for additional work being required.  Still, it is interesting, but not for me.  Cheers!

[shinyribs]

There is a similar item for most popular V8's. System1 makes them. Or at least distributes them. I never bought one cuz they are about $150+ depending on application. we have sold a few thru the speed shop ,but everyone that ever bought on eended up going back to throw away filters. said it was too messy and the amount of carburetor cleaner needed to really get it clean was about the same as a new throw away filter.LOL Solvents aren't cheap!

[Piute]

                                                  Hey Sarg / sir
                            Whats your thought and would be best oil cooler for my F2



                        Cycle "X" well not the look of flashy chrome fo me
             http://www.cyclexchange.net/Oil%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

[sgtslag]

Well, oil coolers are few, these days.  The old Lockhart units are rare, but they were made for these bikes.  The most commonly available are radiators from CB900C's.  Please note that radiators must be rated/made for oil, not transmission fluid -- motor oil is thicker, and it will not flow through a transmission fluid radiator properly.

The challenge is to find the needed adapter to route the oil through the radiator -- almost no one makes them anymore.  Probably your best bet is to use the oil pump, and oil pan, with radiator, off of a CB900C.  If you visit the CB750C Custom Forum (http://www.cb750c.com/), search for the topic of "oil cooler".  You will likely find some good instructions on how-to-do-it over there.  It is very close to a direct, bolt-on, swap, but there may be some minor tricks to it.

This will pump some of the oil through the radiator (dual channel pump, dual oil flow circuits), all of the time -- no thermostat, just oil going through the radiator, being cooled all of the time, no matter what the oil temperature, which is how Honda set up the CB900C's. The radiator circuit draws oil from the pan/sump, pumps it up to the radiator, then dumps it directly back into the oil pan/sump.  It mixes the cooled oil, with the rest, which is not a terribly efficient method, but it works.  There was some concern, by the experts on the CB750C forum, about the 900C's radiator not being able to handle the 72 PSI pressure that my setup creates:  with my bike, 100% of the oil is pumped through the radiator, at full pressure, all of the time; in the 900C, the oil has supposedly no pressure in the radiator.  I've put over 7,000 miles on my engine since adding the oil cooler circuit, without issue.  I check the radiator, and hoses, periodically, for signs of a problem, but nothing yet.

If you can locate an adapter, you could do as I did, and install an oil thermostat, which will largely bypass the oil radiator until your oil temperature reaches 180 F.  Note, however, that this setup will still cool your oil well beyond the air fins, such that you may want to cover the radiator if riding in temperatures below 55 F, as your oil may never reach 180 F, the minimum operating temperature.

Here is a site that sells two types of oil cooling adapters/systems:

http://www.cyclexchange.net/Oil%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

My setup is similar to the spin-on filter adapter they sell, only I have a different maker, now out of business.  I used a radiator off of a CB900C, cutting the hoses, inserting a thermostat, and additional hoses, to connect to the adapter.  Be sure to use T-bolt clamps!  The oil pressure will be 72 PSI, maximum, which will blow past worm drive hose clamps as if they didn't exist!  Only T-bolt hose clamps will work for this application, due to the high pressure of the system.  Any oil leaks will deposit oil directly in the path of your rear tire...  Think, "Bond, James Bond," for what the results will be.  

Here is an image of the thermostat I used:

http://www.wolfgangint.com/_images/parts/1115109.jpg

I used brass fittings, from a local plumbing shop.  As I said, avoid the shown worm drive clamps.  This thermostat will send 10% of the oil directly to the radiator, when fully closed, to avoid foaming, and thermal shock; when it opens fully (at 180 F), it will send 95% to the radiator, and 5% will go straight back to the engine.  I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any questions.  Cheers!

[Piute]

                                                                     

          Thats the type of info I needed will most likely use "Xs"....#OL-002.......$ 89.00
    Checking with " OLe friends / fam. to see if any 1 has an ole lochart lying around.Heck lots road these 750s and may have collar ..
                                      lot's of respect ..Piute n Judose...




My last girlfriend went and got engaged to a man with a wooden leg, but then she broke it off...

[shinyribs]

Piute wrote

My last girlfriend went and got engaged to a man with a wooden leg, but then she broke it off...

What?!?!That was random!

[roglloyd82]

I kind of like the idea since our bikes are not as common anymore and our filters are going to be less and less easily available.  This way we don't have to worry about not having filters years down the line.  Presuming they live up to their claims of course.

[Re-run]

The filters wont be an issue for quite some time really. Honda used the same filter cartridge in a number of years, so it spans a lot of bikes. There are something like 10 different manufacturers that make filters for our bikes. I can think of Honda, wix, purolator, fram, and emgo off the top o' me head. And this is just for cartridge style. You can find spin-on filters too.

[sgtslag]

My '93 Voyager uses the same cartridge filter as my '79 Honda CB750K did (converted to a spin-on a few years ago); my '83 Kawasaki 440 LTD used the same cartridge filter (sold this bike last year).  That cartridge filter is used in many, may different engines, spanning more than a decade.  In shopping for them in the past, I discovered that they are used in 4-wheel ATV's, as well.  I am not too worried about them running out of production any time soon.  Cheers!

[TOOLS1]

I have 3 Kawasaki's that use the same filter. I'm not really worried either.
TOOLS

[shinyribs]

Spin on?! But the finned filter housing looks so cool...

[Piute]

                                                                   

                                       Spin on?! But the finned filter housing looks so cool...


                                       Have you polished yours out yet CHROMEribs style

                                                                 

[sgtslag]

When it was stock, I would take that housing inside, and scrub it with dish soap, to strip all the oil off.  I even went over it with an old toothbrush, to get it as clean as possible.  I did the same with the bolt, to ensure all of the crud was removed.  I dried it with compressed air, then re-assembled it all.

Now, I just twist off the old filter, wipe the adapter plate clean with a rag, wet the new filter's gasket with clean oil from the bottle, and screw it into place.  By the time I finish the oil change, I have plenty of energy left to do some 12 oz. curls.    Before, I was so tired from all of that meticulous cleaning, I had to quit after the first curl, due to being overworked and exhausted...    

Believe me, if I could figure out a way to adapt a spin-on to my Voyager (the cartridge filter goes up inside the bottom of the block, then it is sealed in place with a circular cover), I would change that out in a heartbeat.    Too bad I am not a machinist:  there is a cruise-ship-load of people still riding Voyagers.  If I could make a simple adapter, I could make a small fortune selling them to Voyager riders.  Hmmm...  

[shinyribs]

Yes Piute,It got polished...then it got plastered with bug carcasses,so it got painted.

Sarge,I know what you mean about the spin on.It would make life easy,but I'm a sucker for fins. When I think about a CB the first image I see in my mind is those fins on the exhaust clamps.Beautiful. Only thing is,my bike doesn't have themIt makes my cockles sad...

A good idea for a start up business venture! SgtSlag's Spiffy Spin-on's!

[sgtslag]

I found a company that makes such an adapter for my Voyager.  Unfortunately, it leaves the top of the filter exposed beneath the engine block.  Depending on which filter you install, it may even stick out, below the engine's bottom.  One fellow ruptured his oil filter on a curb?  Didn't lose his engine, but had one nasty mess to clean up.

On the Honda, the spin-on filter is high up, no risk of it being ruptured unless you really, really tried, hard.  I guess I will leave my Voyager as it was designed by Kawasaki -- I am not willing to risk puncturing the filter, while touring in a lonely place.  Disappointing...
  [Sigh!...]  Cheers!