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You mean the floats are not adjustable? Well that would suck. I dont know if they would fit but the floats from a 78 may work and can be adjusted.
The ride IS the adventure. The destination is just to get gas!
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i haven't had a chance to check yet, but to answer some questions..
the float needles i have, have the rubber tip. they also don't so much as clip in, but slide into a slot on the float.
15mm would be the measure, but when measuring do i measure to the outside of the carb. body or what?
and yeah they aren't adjustable it would seem, i also can't find a place to buy any, although I'm sure i had seen some out there before that offered the plastic ones or the metal floats. Hopefully i can find somewhere with them, i imagine the 78's wouldn't be that far off but i hate the guessing game. (mainly because i have to order, wait, be disappointed or relieved)
would the adjustment being off cause that much of a leak though? i guess it might since that would essentially cause the gas to keep flowing, but does that explain why they are all having the same issue? wouldn't each float stop the gas to it's individual bowl, thus only the ones that the adjustment were off be leaking, i think its unlikely that all the floats would go bad at the same time. Unless one being off can push the gas from it to the others??
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i'll be hopefully pulling the thing apart today finally, and have been searching at work all day (despite work, shh) and all i've found as far as floats are these:
http://www.siriusconinc.com/pro-detail.php?pid=&product_id=88these actually only show on there when searching for my model but are not listed as such.. so yeah.
but before i go off buying anything i don't know that will work, i'd like to run a few theories by you fine people.
first- chance that my bowls bleeder valves have corroded? i don't think they are but i haven't exactly tried to see if they will hold liquid with the carbs. off either.
second - i did some reading and saw a story with a person who had a similar issue, they noted that if the carbs are at the wrong angle it can cause overflow because the float needles (which don't clip into place) slide away slightly and let gas keep flowing. This also seemed like it could explain why i had such an issue trying to ride uphill. anyone else think this might be probable?
third - i have seen some float needles on the various sites i've visited today that have small little wire clip like things on the bottoms, mine do not have that and only sit in place. is it possible that i may need the former? if someone with a DOHC could confirm this that would be great.
i'm going to throw my K&N pods back on instead of the airbox, since i can't go anywhere anyways and they make pulling the carb assembly on and off a lot easier. let me know what you guys think about the above and i'll get back with the results of any progress i hopefully make tonight.
thanks.
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A microfish should tell you if the clips should be on your model and year or not. I do not know the techs on stuff like that. I think Re-Run is better than i am on that by far.
My 79 CX500 which does have different carbs uses the clips and plastic floats which if a MINOR adjustment is needed to get the 15mm you can ligktly bend the floats to achieve it but you will need to make sure both sides are even. They will spring back some so you need to wait a few minutes in between adjustments to see the results. any more than 1-2 mm you need new floats though.
Actualy all my bikes accept for the SL350 use the same needles Honda and Kawasaki. I have used the needles out of the cx to solve a bad valve in the ninja long enough to sync the carbs and have not put it back. The float height is correct and it shuts off properly.
Oh on my sl350 I hafto make sure the floats do not drop to far when putting the bowl back on if the carbs on on the bike. if they do drop to much the needles do catch. but once the bowl is on and the needles not hung on the float they work fine. if you pull a bowl off and the float will not ust go up due to the needle catching on it try putting the bowls on while the carbs are upside down. upside down "you" should not be able to blow air into the bowls. if you can blow into them then you still have a problem. Naturaly use a clean tube to do this little test I do not want you getting gas in your mouth.  I'll be ordering some new needles soon they are not bad price wise.
https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=cb750_900_1100_dohc&category=carb
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could bad air cut off valves cause a problem such as this? I pulled the carbs off last night, though i didn't have time to put them back on yet. I don't know the condition of the Air cut-offs on the inner most carbs. but the number 1's is pretty worn (more like melting as rubber just smears on the hand when touched).
I've never heard of air cut-offs in any related post, but you all know way more than i, so let me know what you think.
also, i got to thinking more about the needles with clips, and although they have the possibility of working better; i don't think i need the clipped ones, the ones i replaced were exactly like the new ones i put on.
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alright after a couple hours of low oxygen environments and testing, i know only this... to bugs florescent lights are sex.
and that i have no idea really what is causing this leak.
i put the carbs back on with my k&n's so i could test easier.
test 1. - bowl #1 off - i can physically push the float up and it stops the gas flow with ease, without needing to fully compress the needle.
test 2. - push the bowl back on as gas is flowing - this failed to stop the flow and only took a couple of seconds to leak like it's brethren.
test 3. - alter the angle of the carbs in both directions - this only succeeded in showing that if angled downward gas will flow back out of the pods.
i continue to think that the possibility of all my floats going bad or all being out of adjustment is highly unlikely, i am far to high (and for that matter sick) off of gasoline tonight to try to measure the float distance, and i still am unsure of how to properly do this.
i am more and more starting to question the air cut off valve making this issue, only because that is my only lead at the moment.
advice or thoughts on the matter is appreciated.
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The air cutoff valves were used to help prevent backfire when going from high throttle to low throttle.
If they are bad I would replace them not bypass them.
Honda used 3 different needles that I remember of.
1 had no way of clipping them to the floats.
2 had a wire clip that held them to the floats.
3 had a small flat shelf like area that slides into an area on the floats.
Test one... what is the measurement between the bottom of the float and the carb body where the bowl mates to it?
Do your floats have any liquid in them? Or are they showing there age AKA corroding?
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i believe mine are needles number 3.
and i will replace the air cut offs when i get a chance because they do need it, although now that i've come down from my high i realize i don't think they have anything to do with this.
i've removed the carbs again to inspect and have found tiny pieces of metal in a few of the bowls, my screen on my petcock was corroded and discarded sometime ago and i put a fuel filter in after. i figure that maybe junk from the tank is just bypassing the in-line filter and blocking the needles, i wouldn't see this obviously since the junk would be floating atop the gas when the bowls are on.
I also noticed that z1 sells needle valve gaskets (which i failed to buy, and didn't know about) so i have purchased these now along with two new in-line filters, i figure the more the merrier.
No liquid in the floats, and they are a pumpkin orange so its hard to look to see any corrosion other than the obvious.
i still have yet to find a place that sells the floats other than the honda service dealer website, which is pricey (32.00 x4...) but i will need to buy atleast one sometime soon since i cracked the connection to one side of one of the floats tonight trying to see if i could adjust them (i cannot).
i placed 3 day shipping, so i'll reassemble when the stuff arrives hopefully Saturday and see what happens.
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Does your tank have Rust?
if si I have found that an Automotive paper filter helps along with a magnet taped to it.
I'll be up all nite tonite
me email is vern401@ yahoo dot com
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i believe it does, i've heard of a similar trick before. how exactly would you go about that?
and i have to work in about 4.5hrs, so i unfortunately can't stay up any longer tinkering, but tomorrow is a new day.
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use a new auto inline filter and I use magnets off an old speeker. then I use black electric tape to hold the mangets to the side of the filter.
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i haven't tried the magnetic in-line filter yet, but i received my two new ones and "needle valve gaskets" from Z1.
i figured these two new ones in combination would be plenty to screen out any rust, one has a screen and the other uses some sort of gold filter...? whatever, not important.
i put the so called "needle valve gaskets" in the only place i figured they might go, since my seats don't seem to be removable on these carbs., which turns out laying them around the brass seat on top of the aluminum was as useless as i thought it would be. (because there's nothing to hold them there and they don't serve a purpose). as far as the above and all previous things i've tried, it didn't seem to help.
on the bright side, i have begun to think that this ridiculous leak might be caused by something else. that something else being the brass tubes to the overflow valves. i have read post where 3/4 sometimes have had hairline cracks appearing in them at one time. and considering this problem started and has only gotten worse since i started using "carb chemical dip" maybe just maybe the chemicals caused the brass tubes to crack?
i looked over a couple and can't tell if what i see are just deformations in the brass, stains or what. but it does look as though it could be possible. so tomorrow i will try something new, tell me if this is a bad idea, but i think im going to try to put a layer of shrink tubing on the tubes to seal them. i have access to some military grade rated ones at work so i'll go with those. I have heard of other soldering up the cracks, but i can't really confirm any by eye so i wouldn't know where to solder.
idk, i continue to be bummed out by this and it continues to be very discouraging.
if any of you live in the south west of Indiana, i wouldn't mind any hands on help.
(reference note: i have filled the bowls up while off the carbs and none leak, so if there is a crack it would be above the bowl line) (and yes i know after that description it seems more unlikely than ever, but i've got to try something)
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The brass overflow tubes would send the gas out the port on the bottom of the bowls.
I wish I did live closer to you but I live in North Carolina.
Dont do the shrink tubing just yet. they should have leaked with gas in the bowl off the carbs too.
What you may want to do is try cleaning the brass tubes with eather brasso or flux. get them good and shinny.
the cracks they talk about are Hard to see.
I check for them by cleaning the tubes well and using a small vacuume tube.
Connect it to the outlet port.
Fill the bowl with water
Hold your finger or some plastic over the top of the tube.
Blow into the vacuume tube.
If the tune bubbles then it is your leak and needs to be sealed.
This is easily done with 2 people but can be done alone. I get my wife to help.
Note I am willing to try fixing them but I live in North Carolina.
I can give you my cell number if you want it to help out in fixing it.
I would still post the progress and results here to help our other members.
Vern
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i suppose your right, even if the tubes were cracked all the gas should only come out of the overflow tubes, and if the crack was above the bowl lip the needles would seat before that point. I'll hold on the shrink idea.
thats an insanely generous offer, so i thank you, but at the moment i am on a rather strict student loan and truck loan repayment plan. and since i know that at least one, probably all, of my air-cut offs need to be replaced and i can't even afford the one at the moment i'll have to humbly pass.
and since im on a supremely budgeted rebuild or fix anything at the moment, i have already re-pulled them off and will take a can of carb cleaner, compressed air, thin gauge wire, and q-tips to them again before the weekend. beyond that i'll have to try to sell some spare parts i've got or wait until early october for my birthday and some generosity from family and friends lol.
when i get to cleaning them again, perhaps i'll take some high quality pictures and perhaps video, and send em your way to see if you might be able to see anything that stands out.
email is exodus-2007@mail.com
the only other lead or question that i don't think will ultimately lead anywhere at the moment is that i've seen these carbs with a fuel pump before? and i have no such device. but that again sounds unlikely that is has anything to do with this.
and am i seeing this correctly? just ran across it.
http://blujay.com/?page=ad&adid=2028740&cat=2030500
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yup about 100 to get them and ship them.
HHMM may be dumb question but here goes
when you installed the pilot screws did you put the small rubber O ring then the small washer then the spring?
I have seen them installed wrong or with one or more missing.
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doesn't that seem like crazy cheap? even considering they probably all need to be rebuilt? idk, off topic.
anyways to answer your question, i've never replaced the pilot screws, but i do remove them when i clean it. and i believe the dumb part of your question may only be on my part for not knowing there was an o-ring with them, because the four of mine do not have one. so... could that lead to this?
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The Oring stops the gas from flowing down the pilot screw. it is a seal. the washer sits between it and the spring.
Without the seal yes they will leak, and or suck air.
Take note on this ...
If you do need them allot of carbs use the same ones. for example...
I have
78 CB750F
79 CX500 custom
91 ZX600C4 Kawasaki
ALL 3 of them use the same seal in the Pilot. not the same pilots but the same seal.
It will be about the same size as the washer.
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ordered complete new sets of o-rings and the small pilot screw washers for all four carbs from here:
http://www.cycleorings.com/#Page1emailaddressi know they don't list our bikes, but i got the inner diameter from them and it pretty much matched my pilot screws atleast, i don't know if the rest of the set will match up. I'll have to wait until they arrive to verify, but at that price compared to the scarceness of vendors for just these it was worth a shot.
turns out i actually had 3/4 o-rings still, they were all pretty corroded though, and only had 2/4 of the washers in place.
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Looking at the site you gave this does look like the parts you will need.
put the spring on the pilot then the washer then the O ring.
make sure they are on the shaft and install it into the carb. set the pilot to the settings in the book.
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so my o-rings should be at my house when i get off work in a couple hours, according to the tracking.
i have had my carb bank and large portions and brass bits soaking in a pine-sol solution for over 24hrs now, and i have compressed air on hand.
any tips, tricks, places to start, small things to look for when cleaning off and reassembling?
and hopefully when all is said and done this thread will heed some useful information for the other readers.
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