Re: heating the pole building ?
Posted by shinyribs on Nov 18, 2013; 6:18pm
URL: http://vintage-and-classic-hondas.81.s1.nabble.com/heating-the-pole-building-tp4046950p4046976.html
*EDIT*- I got to rambling.So, the short version: get one of these.
I with Grado 100% on everything concerning the heat pump. How to operate it,how much better they operate,etc. But I will say that a pole building with a HP better be well insulated and TIGHT!
IMO,for a workshop area that you only want heated while you're using it the cheapest heat is the fastest heat. You're not trying yo maintain a set temperature over a long period of time,you just want to knock the chill off while you're trying to work. And there's no faster heat than a flame.
If you could find a waste oil furnace you'd be golden. Use all your old oil changes for heating fuel.
You said wood is not available to you,but wood stoves heat up slow anyway. Not good for running in the shop for a couple hours in the evening.
If you go with a fuel burning furnace you're gonna have to install some kind of ductwork.Even if it's extremely minimal. Without any ductwork at all the fan will never move any amount of air to accomplish anything. They need the static pressure created by the resistance of the ductwork to work properly. Even if you just install a real basic throat off the unit and a couple large branches it would heat TONS better and faster than no ductwork at all.
Are you planning on staying at this location for a long time? If so,I would maybe pick up a temporary heat source on the cheap while you save up for your permanent heat system.
Turbo heaters work very well and I never burn expensive kerosene in mine.I always use offroad diesel. Sure,it puffs a little balck smoke when it first lights and when it goes off,but with the high ceilings in a shop like yours you will never notice it.
A 50,000 btu unit will run about $200 usually.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200443885_200443885?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=RatingsAndReviews&utm_content=Default
50,000 btu's is about the minimum you should be probably be using for a shop your size,but remember these heaters are 100% efficient. Meaning,since they have no flue,all 50,000 of those btu's are introduced in to your building as useable heat. Most of your standard furnaces are 80-85 % efficient ,so you have to oversize the input btu's to reach the amount of heat output that is actually needed. The higher efficiency models Grado mentioned that use a pvc flue pipe are running 92-97% efficient. Basically,they kick a$$. The furnace itself is a tad more expensive,but since you don't have to build a flue or a chimney you save big bucks right there.
Tall ceilings and uninsulated metal walls-worst case scenario.Especially for a heat pump.Also,since it was designed as a pole building I doubt the floor was designed with any sort of thermal break in it,so you floor is gonna be colder than what you might run into in a typical house type situation. I know you don't want to spend the money on fully insulating your shop and/or closing off the ceiling right now,so IMO I'd say get a turbo heater and just point it in your general direction. You'd be surprised just how well they heat. It's instant heat,fairly cheap and it's completely portable.With your high ceiling fumes will be a non issue.
As far as fuel consumption with one of these goes;mine is a 50k btu and it has a .50 nozzle. Which means it burns 1/2 a gallon of fuel per hour of run time. So 5 gallons will give you 10 hours of heat. If you install an actual oil furnace you'd be looking at a 75,000-90,000 btu furnace. Those sizes are going to give you anywhere from a 3/4 gallon per hour to a 1 gallon per hour fuel consumption rate. But,oil furnaces are only available as standard efficiency models (80-85%),there are no 90%+ efficiency models to be had with fuel oil,so you have to consider flue heat losses in to that.
Natural gas/propane fuel consumption rates are harder to calculate,but the fuel itself is cheaper. Well, maybe no LP. That stuff is up to about $4/lb in my area. Also,some areas wont sell you a storage tank for your LP anymore,they require you to lease it,so you might want to check in to the added cost of leasing a tank. Of course,I'm talking about permanent tanks. You know,the submarine out in the yard You can buy the smaller portable tanks that you carry in to be refilled,which is a pain,but going to refilling stations are typically cheaper than having a truck come by and filling your permanent tank. Usually about $1/lb cheaper.
URL: http://vintage-and-classic-hondas.81.s1.nabble.com/heating-the-pole-building-tp4046950p4046976.html
No need for me,Grado. You got it under control here.
*EDIT*- I got to rambling.So, the short version: get one of these.
I with Grado 100% on everything concerning the heat pump. How to operate it,how much better they operate,etc. But I will say that a pole building with a HP better be well insulated and TIGHT!
IMO,for a workshop area that you only want heated while you're using it the cheapest heat is the fastest heat. You're not trying yo maintain a set temperature over a long period of time,you just want to knock the chill off while you're trying to work. And there's no faster heat than a flame.
If you could find a waste oil furnace you'd be golden. Use all your old oil changes for heating fuel.
You said wood is not available to you,but wood stoves heat up slow anyway. Not good for running in the shop for a couple hours in the evening.
If you go with a fuel burning furnace you're gonna have to install some kind of ductwork.Even if it's extremely minimal. Without any ductwork at all the fan will never move any amount of air to accomplish anything. They need the static pressure created by the resistance of the ductwork to work properly. Even if you just install a real basic throat off the unit and a couple large branches it would heat TONS better and faster than no ductwork at all.
Are you planning on staying at this location for a long time? If so,I would maybe pick up a temporary heat source on the cheap while you save up for your permanent heat system.
Turbo heaters work very well and I never burn expensive kerosene in mine.I always use offroad diesel. Sure,it puffs a little balck smoke when it first lights and when it goes off,but with the high ceilings in a shop like yours you will never notice it.
A 50,000 btu unit will run about $200 usually.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200443885_200443885?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=RatingsAndReviews&utm_content=Default
50,000 btu's is about the minimum you should be probably be using for a shop your size,but remember these heaters are 100% efficient. Meaning,since they have no flue,all 50,000 of those btu's are introduced in to your building as useable heat. Most of your standard furnaces are 80-85 % efficient ,so you have to oversize the input btu's to reach the amount of heat output that is actually needed. The higher efficiency models Grado mentioned that use a pvc flue pipe are running 92-97% efficient. Basically,they kick a$$. The furnace itself is a tad more expensive,but since you don't have to build a flue or a chimney you save big bucks right there.
Now,since this is the shop in question,your heating requirements are nothing short of insane.YipeeGot a new place to play with some toys.
I need to get a few thing straighten up and put away, But I am a very happy fella.
Tall ceilings and uninsulated metal walls-worst case scenario.Especially for a heat pump.Also,since it was designed as a pole building I doubt the floor was designed with any sort of thermal break in it,so you floor is gonna be colder than what you might run into in a typical house type situation. I know you don't want to spend the money on fully insulating your shop and/or closing off the ceiling right now,so IMO I'd say get a turbo heater and just point it in your general direction. You'd be surprised just how well they heat. It's instant heat,fairly cheap and it's completely portable.With your high ceiling fumes will be a non issue.
As far as fuel consumption with one of these goes;mine is a 50k btu and it has a .50 nozzle. Which means it burns 1/2 a gallon of fuel per hour of run time. So 5 gallons will give you 10 hours of heat. If you install an actual oil furnace you'd be looking at a 75,000-90,000 btu furnace. Those sizes are going to give you anywhere from a 3/4 gallon per hour to a 1 gallon per hour fuel consumption rate. But,oil furnaces are only available as standard efficiency models (80-85%),there are no 90%+ efficiency models to be had with fuel oil,so you have to consider flue heat losses in to that.
Natural gas/propane fuel consumption rates are harder to calculate,but the fuel itself is cheaper. Well, maybe no LP. That stuff is up to about $4/lb in my area. Also,some areas wont sell you a storage tank for your LP anymore,they require you to lease it,so you might want to check in to the added cost of leasing a tank. Of course,I'm talking about permanent tanks. You know,the submarine out in the yard
You can buy the smaller portable tanks that you carry in to be refilled,which is a pain,but going to refilling stations are typically cheaper than having a truck come by and filling your permanent tank. Usually about $1/lb cheaper.
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