'81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

seestheday
Yes it is.  I'm a little embarrassed I didn't think of that.
1981 CB750K with 900 cams
90K KM's, rebuilt head, rebuilt carbs, upgraded valve stem seals

My wife's recipe website that I'm trying to help promote: Strawberries for supper. Yes, I am a lucky man.

My cb750 video site
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
In reply to this post by shinyribs
Thanks Shiny.  I've BTDT. I been a member of a couple of the other sites related to the 1979-83 DOHC cb750-1100 Honda's and have learned a lot about them. I guess I am addicted to them as I have bought
probably 40 of them in the last 5 years. Most being non-runners. Most of the time dirty carbs are the problem. Some times it's the charging system that causes them to get parked. Learned how to disassemble
and clean the carbs thanks to Mike Nixon's book ($30) Most every thing else I learned being a member of cb750c.com  It's one of the great sites on these bikes! ....and not to say that this site isn't!
The one's that are to far gone, or I don't get the title to, I dismantled and used, or sold the parts. You learn a lot. I love these bikes!! My favorite model is the cb1100f, having owned and ridden two of them. Also rode two cb1000c's. Another fun bike.
Currently I'm riding an 07 cb900 919 Hornet and a 2010 Kawasaki klx250s dual sport. Also, I owned and rode Harley Davidson's from about 1974 until 2 years ago when I sold my 98 HD 95th Anniversary RoadKing.
Hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but if anyone needs parts for their bike, I have a shed full. Reasonable price to forum members.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
Thanks for the tip grumpy! I will be sure to open up the bike next chance I get to take a look at that part. How would you recommend I carefully remove the bolts from the cam cap? I would hate to have another broken bolt on my hands. Also, I ordered the nozzle about an hour before you posted. If I have another go bad, I will be sure to knock on your door. I found them on ebay for just nine bucks, so I am not too upset. Much better than the $30 OEM part that I saw as "Not available" listed on the other parts sites.


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Grumpy [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Shiny.  I've BTDT. I been a member of a couple of the other sites related to the 1979-83 DOHC cb750-1100 Honda's and have learned a lot about them. I guess I am addicted to them as I have bought
probably 40 of them in the last 5 years. Most being non-runners. Most of the time dirty carbs are the problem. Some times it's the charging system that causes them to get parked. Learned how to disassemble
and clean the carbs thanks to Mike Nixon's book ($30) Most every thing else I learned being a member of cb750c.com  It's one of the great sites on these bikes! ....and not to say that this site isn't!
The one's that are to far gone, or I don't get the title to, I dismantled and used, or sold the parts. You learn a lot. I love these bikes!! My favorite model is the cb1100f, having owned and ridden two of them. Also rode two cb1000c's. Another fun bike.
Currently I'm riding an 07 cb900 919 Hornet and a 2010 Kawasaki klx250s dual sport. Also, I owned and rode Harley Davidson's from about 1974 until 2 years ago when I sold my 98 HD 95th Anniversary RoadKing.
Hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but if anyone needs parts for their bike, I have a shed full. Reasonable price to forum members.


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Mark Salvaggio
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '12
Computer and Systems Engineering
Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Truck
Any chance you have om side covers that will fit an '82 CB900?
It's only illegal if you get caught.

If at first you don't succeed, use more lighter fluid

95% of Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road... The other 5% made it home.

New Baltimore, Va '82 CB900c, 1980 CB985F/K 'Mutt"
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
Truck..... Not with that last line in your signature...just kidding. I know you can't help being ignorantHa!
  I have a pair from a cb1000c. Same thing. They are colbalt blue in color.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
In reply to this post by Chicago Ted
I would use penetration oil and a gentle pull with breaker bar and correct size 6 point socket. Make your own penetrating fluid using automatic transmission fluid and acetone mixed 50-50. Been tested and proved by a machinist group. But didn't I read that you had replaced the valve stem seals? If that is the case, then you should not have to worry about breaking a bolt that has been in there for 30 years, because it has been removed recently and shouldn't be seized or whatever. In any case just be careful. I always replace the cam cap bolts when I remove mine just to be safe. Old ones can break when re-torquing them. Buy new bolts here inexpensively...
 
http://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_socket_cap_Class_12.9_steel_black_oil_finish_6mm_x_1.0mm.aspx

22 50mm long bolts and 2 60mm long ones... Use ss washers with the 50mm bolts. Buy them at McMaster Carr cheap.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Truck
In reply to this post by Grumpy
that would be perfect. how much would you want for the pair?

And I do't really have anthing against Harley's, I wouldn't know anything about working on bies if it wasn't for ALL the time I get to spend working on my friends Harley's!!!
It's only illegal if you get caught.

If at first you don't succeed, use more lighter fluid

95% of Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road... The other 5% made it home.

New Baltimore, Va '82 CB900c, 1980 CB985F/K 'Mutt"
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
In reply to this post by Grumpy
I have not replaced the valve steam seals. I was thinking about it when I thought I had bad compression, but that turned out to not be my issue. I will follow your plan to pull them out gently. Additionally, if all else fails, could I not simply pull out this cam cap and replace it with one that does not have a busted bolt stuck in it? That may honestly be the easiest solution, even better than taking it to a machinist/welder. Do you happen to have any spares?


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Grumpy [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would use penetration oil and a gentle pull with breaker bar and correct size 6 point socket. Make your own penetrating fluid using automatic transmission fluid and acetone mixed 50-50. Been tested and proved by a machinist group. But didn't I read that you had replaced the valve stem seals? If that is the case, then you should not have to worry about breaking a bolt that has been in there for 30 years, because it has been removed recently and shouldn't be seized or whatever. In any case just be careful. I always replace the cam cap bolts when I remove mine just to be safe. Old ones can break when re-torquing them. Buy new bolts here inexpensively...
 
http://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_socket_cap_Class_12.9_steel_black_oil_finish_6mm_x_1.0mm.aspx

22 50mm long bolts and 2 60mm long ones... Use ss washers with the 50mm bolts. Buy them at McMaster Carr cheap.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Mark Salvaggio
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '12
Computer and Systems Engineering
Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy

The head and cam caps are line bored together and can be different. Using one that wasn't bored with the others on your head may or may not work. You could try, but it could be to tight when you torque it down. Best to take the cap to a machinist and pay him $20-30.


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Chicago Ted [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have not replaced the valve steam seals. I was thinking about it when I thought I had bad compression, but that turned out to not be my issue. I will follow your plan to pull them out gently. Additionally, if all else fails, could I not simply pull out this cam cap and replace it with one that does not have a busted bolt stuck in it? That may honestly be the easiest solution, even better than taking it to a machinist/welder. Do you happen to have any spares?


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Grumpy [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would use penetration oil and a gentle pull with breaker bar and correct size 6 point socket. Make your own penetrating fluid using automatic transmission fluid and acetone mixed 50-50. Been tested and proved by a machinist group. But didn't I read that you had replaced the valve stem seals? If that is the case, then you should not have to worry about breaking a bolt that has been in there for 30 years, because it has been removed recently and shouldn't be seized or whatever. In any case just be careful. I always replace the cam cap bolts when I remove mine just to be safe. Old ones can break when re-torquing them. Buy new bolts here inexpensively...
 
http://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_socket_cap_Class_12.9_steel_black_oil_finish_6mm_x_1.0mm.aspx

22 50mm long bolts and 2 60mm long ones... Use ss washers with the 50mm bolts. Buy them at McMaster Carr cheap.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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NAML



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Mark Salvaggio
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '12
Computer and Systems Engineering
Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity




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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

genesound
In reply to this post by Grumpy
By the way, I tested those bolts from Bolt Depot, and they will hold considerably more torque than the Honda cam holder bolts.

[quote=genesound]I just pulled 14.7 ft lbs on one of those bolts with my digital Snap-On torque wrench (it's ridiculously accurate) and the bolt felt rock solid, no give at all, and it shows no wear at all. The nuts still spin on and off with ease. I didn't really want to destroy the bolt, so I didn't go any farther, but I'd say these bolts will be fine when torqued to 10.5 ft lbs, or half way between 9 and 12 ft lbs, which is spec.

The Certificate of Calibration that came with this torque wrench says it measured ±0.1% clockwise, and -0.8% max counterclockwise.  :twisted:[/quote]

http://www.cb750c.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=187080#187080
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
In reply to this post by Truck
Truck, I don't discuss price on line. Email sent...I hope.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Truck
Not sure if the email I have on the site is correct. Use mrosenberger@cateseng.com. Thanks!
It's only illegal if you get caught.

If at first you don't succeed, use more lighter fluid

95% of Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road... The other 5% made it home.

New Baltimore, Va '82 CB900c, 1980 CB985F/K 'Mutt"
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
In reply to this post by Grumpy
So, I took off my cam shaft cover. Good news, no other broken bolts at least!. I got to the cam cap, and started to carefully try to remove the bolt. It certainly was not loose. I applied a little pressure, and then felt it slip with a bit of a crack noise to it. I got scared off. I don't know that it broke, and if I recall, the other bolt, when it broke, felt more like a squish, than a crack. Regardless, I doused it in transmission fluid (I have no acetone), and now the cover is resting on it. I just really, really don't want to completely brick my engine by doing something so basic. I will try again when I have a bit more time and light. After letting the clean oil soak in. However, it is bathed in oil anyway, so, that should at least mean it is not seized, right? Are there any other tricks I can do to avoid breaking another bolt?
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
When removing torqued bolts, there usually is a "crack" as it breaks loose. Go ahead and remove it. I think
it is probably ok. In any case, if it did break, whats done is done and just sitting there doesn't help it be un-broke. The damage would be done. Buy a small can of Acetone at Lowes or Home Depot. If you plan to
keep the bike, you will need penetrating fluid. I  always use it when loosening nuts and bolts on these old bikes. You will need a GOOD torque wrench when you go to reinstall the cap. One from Harbor Fright does not qualify. Borrow one from a mechanic friend. Measured in in./lbs. if possible. Good Luck!
Think positive.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
Hey, I read that Marvel Mystery Oil can be used as penetrating/cutting fluid. Do you recommend that? Because I happen to have some of that on hand, as well as some Seafoam. Do either of those contain acetone? Just looking to avoid another trip to the store. Also, I have this torque wrench. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MB53ZE/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1. It got decent reviews, but for all I know, it may be "Harbor Freight" quality. What do you guys think, and what do your recommend?


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Grumpy [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
When removing torqued bolts, there usually is a "crack" as it breaks loose. Go ahead and remove it. I think
it is probably ok. In any case, if it did break, whats done is done and just sitting there doesn't help it be un-broke. The damage would be done. Buy a small can of Acetone at Lowes or Home Depot. If you plan to
keep the bike, you will need penetrating fluid. I  always use it when loosening nuts and bolts on these old bikes. You will need a GOOD torque wrench when you go to reinstall the cap. One from Harbor Fright does not qualify. Borrow one from a mechanic friend. Measured in in./lbs. if possible. Good Luck!
Think positive.


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Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '12
Computer and Systems Engineering
Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
MM oil is good stuff, but I don't about it alone....Check the manufactures web site for that info...I like and use Seafoam.. I wouldn't trust any torque wrench made in Taiwan or china. That one is, but it's your bike.
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
Just an update. I WAS able to get the cam cap off without breaking another bolt. Bad news though, the left handed bits I bought did not help me get this thing out. I also worry that my drilling may have worn away some of the original threading. I am really worrying that I may need to either retap this thing, or replace it with a near fit replacement. I am going to be getting the number for a welder/machinist tomorrow from a friend. Also, you recommend that I DON'T reuse the two bolts that were holding down my cam cap, is that correct?

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

TOOLS1
Administrator
Go on and re-use those bolts. There is not anything wrong with them. If you are worried tighten them to 6 ft lbs with a torque wrench. Also the valve cover bolt does not need the really tight, just snugged, so if the threads are not too buggered you will be alright. If they are really buggered, you can put a heli-coil in it.
TOOLS
Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."

1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)
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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Chicago Ted
Okay, I finally got a chance to talk to this welder. He was very helpful, but he had a bad prognosis, after looking at the pictures I sent him. He says that, since the bolt is recessed in this manner, it would be almost impossible to weld as is. Instead we would have to actually cut off some of the top of the part, in order to expose more of the broken bolt. Even then, he fears that the heat of the weld would most likely warp the aluminum, making it fit poorly. Instead, we decided it would be best to try boring out the hole and using a thread repair kit, like a helicoil, as you mentioned. He was not terribly confident about that approach either, since I already started an off center hole in there, and we need our new hole to be true. However, he agreed that it was worth a shot, and I will be meeting with him on tuesday.

That said, if anyone has a spare cam cap that they could part with, I would be willing to buy one off of you guys, in case all of this goes pear shaped. I know that fitment could be an issue, but I am at the end of my options.


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:54 PM, TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Go on and re-use those bolts. There is not anything wrong with them. If you are worried tighten them to 6 ft lbs with a torque wrench. Also the valve cover bolt does not need the really tight, just snugged, so if the threads are not too buggered you will be alright. If they are really buggered, you can put a heli-coil in it.
TOOLS
Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-K X 2
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1995 KZ 1000 P-14
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)



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--
Mark Salvaggio
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '12
Computer and Systems Engineering
Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity

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Re: '81 CB750F trying to get it road ready.

Grumpy
What letter do you need? I might have one in my shed. You should get a second opnion
from a machine shop Ted, what have you got to lose?
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