I need a new clutch...

[shinyribs]

...or at least,I'm pretty sure I do.I cant complain.Between wheelies and holeshots,I pretty much asked for this. It slips pretty bad,but only when the engine is cold.Once warm it will not slip unless you really get it in a strain. Is it possible I just glazed it?

So,what should I get and where?Who has the best prices? I have looked around some and Barnett seems to be the main choice.

Should I upgrade my springs? And will this cause a huge difference in lever pull?

As always,I'm wide open to all suggestions.Thanks.

[TOOLS1]

Barnett, and springs! I'm sure, you will still be able to squeeze the lever.
TOOLS

[shinyribs]

Barnett's I have found are running right around $110-125 for the clutch and another $25 for the springs.


I saw this kit.Extra plate with springs for $100. Another $15 for shipping. Whaddya think?

http://cbrzone.com/sohc.html

[TOOLS1]

Never heard of it. Is it the same company that makes the fasteners?
TOOLS

[shinyribs]

Not a clue bud. I tried to get an actual shipping quote (like they suggested) rather than using the calculator,PER THEIR INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!, and accidentally ordered the !@#$% thing They suckered me! I'm gonna email them now.Oh,that just pisses me off.

[shinyribs]

After some more research I have found many people who hate both the Barnett and the APE clutch. They complain of chatter,cold slipping,impossible to find neutral and real heavy lever pull. Several even mention that the clutches stack up height it wrong and they are having to order additional steels in order to correct the issue.

There are some reports of stock clutches with good springs handling 100 hp 836's with no problems.

I'm trying to reverse my order now.We'll see how this goes.

[TOOLS1]

I never had any problems with my Barnett clutches in my Harleys. Come to think of it, that was about the only things I never had any problems with on those bikes. Also I know it is very common, for the clutches on the CB 750s to be installed wrong. My Buddy just had a new clutch installed in his CB 750 at his favorite shop. Now it will not go into neutral while it is running, and is very hard to shift. I just can't convince him they installed it wrong, and he thinks it's the transmission. That's why he wants to build the new engine.  
TOOLS
P.S. You know after thinking about this, maybe, you should just get a torque converter.

[rrgunslinger]

You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink!  Just saying...

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:52 PM, TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I never had any problems with my Barnett clutches in my Harleys. Come to think of it, that was about the only things I never had any problems with on those bikes. Also I know it is very common, for the clutches on the CB 750s to be installed wrong. My Buddy just had a new clutch installed in his CB 750 at his favorite shop. Now it will not go into neutral while it is running, and is very hard to shift. I just can't convince him they installed it wrong, and he thinks it's the transmission. That's why he wants to build the new engine.  
TOOLS
P.S. You know after thinking about this, maybe, you should just get a torque converter.

Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 2
1981 CB 750
1995 KZ 1000 P-14
1981 KZ 750 LTD X 2
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1987 Honda TLR 200
1982 Honda XL 80
2005 Yamaha PW 50
South of Edan (Kansas City MO)

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[shinyribs]

Apparently some of the later bikes had different parts in the clutches. The F2' s are one and maybe the F1 as well. Honda made some anti chatter changes and that is what supposedly causes the hard to find neutral and hard shifting. The kits are for the earlier bikes without the updated clutches. Not sure what the cut off is. Just a little info I found. Could be Gerald's problem, too.

[shinyribs]

APE e-mailed me and they cancelled the order.Whew! I was afraid they would get me on that one. Just wanted to put out a good word for APE.  Still trying to sort out the particular on the different clutches.

[alfa750]

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[shinyribs]

Thanks Alfa. No,since yours is stock all should be well. From what I can gather,the Barnett and the APE kit I was looking at are designed for the standard SOHC clutch,and work just fine in them. But if you have a F2,F3 or (not sure on this part) a 76 Super Sport (F1??? is that right?) then the clutches are slightly different.

I'm still a little fuzzy on the actual details,but apparently the later clutches have mods to them to help with clutch chatter. I keep seeing terms like "disc a" ,disc "b" & ""disc 1","disc 2". Not sure what that means,but it is where the kits have a snag. people are able to correct the kits using a mixture of other 'standard' parts to correct it,but I just dont understand the lingo yet. I'm getting my google on tonight and see what I can dig up.Just by looking at kits on ebay I noticed some are listed for 69-78 k  and others have a separate part number for 76F and 77-78 F2/3. I'm seriously considering just shimming my springs for a temporary fix while I get all this sorted out.Once the oil is hot it holds just fine. my springs are quite old ya know.36 years old.

[shinyribs]

Here are some things I found. I can't verify the accuracy of these,soooo dont consider it as gospel:


On the CB750's there were three more-or-less distinct clutch configurations.
Type A (K0,K1,K2):
Is the original and might be called the "Extra disk short basket design"
This design has a slightly larger clutch disk at the base of the inner basket and was notorious for chatter - probably because the springs were weak and the plates and disks did not have sufficient rigidity to dampen vibrations.
Type B (K3, K4, K5, F):
Might be called the "Sprung short basket design"
This design removed the extra disk and strengthened the springs.  Chatter was much less evident.
Type C (K6, K7, K8, F2):
Might be called the "Long basket design"
Longer basket and internal parts, longer and stronger springs, and a double rivetted centre plate, solved the chatter problem and significantly strengthened the clutch.

Parts were only somewhat interchangeable, but only in certain combinations.

An extra plate (as in the aftermarket variety) is of dubious benefit in any of these designs.  Stronger springs are a benefit, but have the downside of putting even more pressure on the weakest link in the chain, i.e. the clutch pressure plate.



And another:


Did you try searching from the Tech Forums page under something like "APE clutch"?  There has been a number of discussions on this site about it . . .As much as I appreciate the support that companies like APE give to our aging beasts, I must say that I was not particularly pleased with their extra plate clutch kit.  One issue is that although the kit is claimed to work with all years of the SOHC 750, it is not truly compatible with the the late "deeper" basket clutches that Honda began using somewhere around 75/76.  These clutches have the double thick center steel and the outer most friction disc has a wider tang to fit into a widened section at the end of the clutch basket fingers.  The stack height with the APE kit and the stock the double center steel is too tall to fit,  so you must omit the double plate and source an additional regular thickness steel to replace it.  This leaves you with a stack height slightly less than stock and likely less than ideal.  Also, no wider tanged friction disc is supplied so the outer most disc is a very loose fit in the wider section of the clutch basket fingers.  This is not ideal.  The setup worked OK but finding neutral was particularly difficult and occasionally the clutch would emit a nasty screeching/buzzing noise upon initial cold take off.  Replacing the APE setup with new stock parts and a set of heavy duty springs has resulted in a nicely performing clutch that handles the power of my project's 836 motor. I have read a few other reports on this site suggesting that the increased stack height of the APE kit in the earlier style clutches (which is presumably what it was designed for) made for difficult neutral engagement. . .Overall, my feeling is that you are better off with OEM frictions and steels in good condition and heavy duty springs (for performance applications) than using an extra plate kit.  I honestly don't think it is proper to advertise the kit as being compatible with all years the SOHC 750s . . . .

[chasingmytail]

Glad you are on the hunt for this (and posting about it!), I've been noticing a bit too much chatter in that area... Think I'm about due for a clutch as well.

You have a k8, right shiny?

I've talked to a couple of shops here in Portland, no one has given me any real answers unfortunately.

Have you seen the Cyclexchange deals? Haven't researched it very thoroughly myself, but it's on my list. http://www.cyclexchange.net/Engine%20Parts%20Lower%20End.htm

[shinyribs]

Some insight to the 'disc b' issue:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=46710.0

[shinyribs]

chasingmytail,I am building a '78K ,but the bike I need a clutch for is a '76F.

For as many guys that love the aftermarket clutches,I am finding just as many using stock clutches with heavier springs.

[shinyribs]

More bad news for the APE clutch:

"Somewhere around 76 Honda changed the clutch assembly, adding a double thickness riveted steel plate in the center of the clutch sandwhich.  The entire depth of the clutch package was increased.  The outer most friction disc also had a wider tang that mated with a wider slot in the outermost portion of the basket.  If your clutch is this later type then your "69-78 kit" will probably not work correctly as it is probably designed for the earlier clutch.  I ran into this problem with APE's extra plate performance clutch when I tried to use it on my 78ks clutch.  Make sure that you examine you clutch parts carefully and compare the stock pieces to the Barnett setup. . . . .From what I have read, Honda used stronger springs (don't know about length) in the F2/F3 clutches to keep things from slipping with the higher powered engine.  Clutch springs aren't particularly expensive and I have had good luck with heavier springs that came with the APE kit (the only part of the kit that I could use).  Perhaps you should just buy a set of heavy duty springs and not worry about the wear limits of the stock ones??

[shinyribs]

Thanks for the link to the CycleX clutch. That thing is very cool,but way outside my budget

[chasingmytail]

Thought I spotted one in the $130 price range, did I misread? Seems I'm doing that lately. May need some new glasses!

[shinyribs]

No,haha! They have cheaper ones,too. When I first looked at that link I saw the lock up clutch they make.$500