Which Electronic Ignition Should I Buy?

[settles]

I'm getting ready to start on my bike for the winter.  The first thing I want to do is to replace the points with an electronic ignition.  I think this would eliminate some of the idle and starting problems I have been having.  I think the gaps aren't right or maybe the spring-advance thingy (industry term) on the points ignition is messed up because after it warms up it purrs like a kitty.  Even if it doesn't clear it up, it's something I want to do just for a little more "modern bike reliability", and it removes that as a potential cause and will alow me to focus one other causes.

That being said, I am trying to figure out which model ignition to buy.  I have a 1978 CB750K.  I am not trying to build a 100hp race machine here, so I can pretty much rule out some of the high dollar models.  I'm at a loss as to what I should be considering to make a wise decision.

Does anyone have any recent experience with the Pamco ignitions?  Is a Dynatek a better part?  How are they for ease of installation?  Do I need to replcae the coils as well?  

I have never worked on a motorcycle ignition but I have ony my various cars and trucks.  So while I'm not COMPLETELY clueless, I'm still pretty much a NOOB!  I look forward to any and all help and offer thanks in advance.  

[TOOLS1]

I am kind of leaning toward the Pamco myself. They are very simple, and, you do not need to up grade coils, unless, you want to. You can get it through vintagecb750.com They have the ignition system in stock, but they are out of the kits with coils.
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[sgtslag]

If you retain the OEM ignition coils (even with the new electronic ignition system...), I would suggest NGK Iridium spark plugs:  they require less voltage to jump the gap; they fire nearly perfectly, every single time; they will last 50,000+ miles (100,000 in a car).  They will not, by themselves, solve your points ignition system problems, but if you keep the weaker, original coils, then they would be a good idea.  They average around $8 per plug, so around $32 for a set of four.

They transformed the running of my '79 K (OEM, weak ignition coils), with almost instantaneous starts (if there is gas in the floats, and carbs, it will be running the instant the starter switch closes!), every time (7,000+ miles, still the same, amazing starts), and smoother idling, and overall performance (as per the butt-dyno!).  I installed them in my '93 Voyager (very strong, OEM ignition system), without noticing any benefits (flat-lined on the butt-dyno...), but they give me piece of mind, and longevity between now, and the next time I will need to change them -- another 46,000+ miles to go.  Cheers!

[settles]

I installed the NGK Iridium plugs.  It was really vold when I tried to start it and it ran like total sh*t.  This bike is extremly cold-blooded.  So I have yet to realize the benefits.  As far as replacing the coils go, if I have to do it I will, but I'd rather not.  Thanks for the info!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 1:18 PM, sgtslag [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

If you retain the OEM ignition coils (even with the new electronic ignition system...), I would suggest NGK Iridium spark plugs:  they require less voltage to jump the gap; they fire nearly perfectly, every single time; they will last 50,000+ miles (100,000 in a car).  They will not, by themselves, solve your points ignition system problems, but if you keep the weaker, original coils, then they would be a good idea.  They average around $8 per plug, so around $32 for a set of four.

They transformed the running of my '79 K (OEM, weak ignition coils), with almost instantaneous starts (if there is gas in the floats, and carbs, it will be running the instant the starter switch closes!), every time (7,000+ miles, still the same, amazing starts), and smoother idling, and overall performance (as per the butt-dyno!).  I installed them in my '93 Voyager (very strong, OEM ignition system), without noticing any benefits (flat-lined on the butt-dyno...), but they give me piece of mind, and longevity between now, and the next time I will need to change them -- another 46,000+ miles to go.  Cheers!

1979 CB750K
1993 Kawasaki Voyager XII

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[settles]

I've been looking around a bit for the last week or so and I found that you can buy them directly from PAMCO's website. It's actually only like $120 as opposed to $180 from vintagecb750.com.  Just a thought. The installation seems pretty easy.  And they have the installation instructions right on their page that they update (so they say) as needed.  I'm just leery of using something that no one else seems to be using. Know what I mean?

[settles]

I forgot to throw the link the the pamco page where they have it for $109+$6 shipping.  http://www.cb750ignition.com/

[TOOLS1]

Your pilot jets might be plugged. They are pressed in, but I made a puller using a No#4 screw, and a piece of metal break-line tubing. I taped the hole in the jet with a 4-40 tap. then slid the piece of break-line over the jet. I then threaded a nut up on the screw, and screwed the screw into the jet. Then I just tightened the nut down, and the jet came right out. I then cleaned them with my dremel, and a wire wheel. After that I used a cutting torch tip cleaner (the kind with the little drill bits) to clean out every hole in the jet. I then used the .045 bit that came with the cleaner to drill out the center hole through the jet. This way it gets a little more fuel, for cold starting. Honda made them pretty lean. I then just tapped the jet back in with the handle of a screw driver.
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[settles]

Is that the only way to clean them?  Can I soak the carbs in a solution instead?  I am afraid to mess with those carbs.  But if they are screwed up then what can it hurt?  I just haven't messed with them before.

[shinyribs]

You can soak the brass jets in toilet bowl cleaner.I use "The Works" at full strength.Works good for me

[TOOLS1]

That is the only way to clean those jets. The holes are, so tiny there is no way anything, but a tip cleaner will penetrate it. The good news is, you do not have to disassemble the whole rack to clean them. All, you need to do is remove the float bowels, floats, main jets, main jet holders, and the pilot jets. You can soak the whole rack in Shineys toilet bowel cleaner, but use the tip cleaner, and dremel with a wire wheel to clean the jets.
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[settles]

Cool.  I guess I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. hahaha. I have a heated garage so I think I'll get the temp up to around 75 after I do the ignition.  It doesn't seem to do the hard start thing when its below 70deg. Like I said, I want to eliminate the points as being a possible problem and just for reliability's sake.  If I have to do all this to the carbs I'll start a separate post.  Honestly, I want to do a 4 to 1 exhaust and I might need to fiddle with the carbs anyway.  I'm pretty confident I can swap the parts out for the ignition without too much problem.  The carbs scare me though. :)

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:11 PM, TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

That is the only way to clean those jets. The holes are, so tiny there is no way anything, but a tip cleaner will penetrate it. The good news is, you do not have to disassemble the whole rack to clean them. All, you need to do is remove the float bowels, floats, main jets, main jet holders, and the pilot jets. You can soak the whole rack in Shineys toilet bowel cleaner, but use the tip cleaner, and dremel with a wire wheel to clean the jets.

TOOLS

Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
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Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750 A
1981 CB 750
1995 KZ 1000 P-14
1982 GS 750
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1987 Honda TLR 200
1982 Honda XL 70
2005 Yamaha PW 50
South of Edan (Kansas City MO)

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[Peterwh]

Back to the original question of electronic ignition.  I also have a '78 750k.  I just bought and installed a Pamco ignition with new coils from vintageCB750.  They were out of stock for a while but I waited and they let me know when they came in.  I think the reason for the difference in price is that they include the new coils.  I also switched to Irridium plugs recently too.  It took me about two hours to switch the points for the electronic ignition and replace the coils.

A few comments.  I think the person who wrote the instructions did not have English as a first language.  It took a bit of working through the wiring.  Not everything you need is included but what is missing is a couple of electrical connectors to complete the wiring.  Also, the spacers that come with the kit don't seem to be correct for the front end of the coils.  I fitted the kit the night before I went away for two weeks - I travel a lot on business.  I didn't have the connectors so I kind of jury rigged the wiring by just twisting everything together.  I was concerned it wouldn't work but it started first time once I worked out which coil served which two cylinders.  Actually, it started from cold with one hand push of the kick start.  Prior to fitting the electronic ignition, but after switching to the Irridium plugs, it would start this way when warm.

When I get back, I'm going to rig the wiring properly and finish off the installation.  Overall it's been a positive experience and I think the bike will be better for the new ignition.  I would recommend the Pamco from vintagecb750 with the above provisos, to anyone who is fairly practical.

[settles]

Sweet!  That is exactly what I was wanting to hear.  Thanks man,once you're done I might pick your brain if I get stuck. (If that's cool)  I'm going to go ahead and order the Pamco on payday.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Peterwh [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Back to the original question of electronic ignition.  I also have a '78 750k.  I just bought and installed a Pamco ignition with new coils from vintageCB750.  They were out of stock for a while but I waited and they let me know when they came in.  I think the reason for the difference in price is that they include the new coils.  I also switched to Irridium plugs recently too.  It took me about two hours to switch the points for the electronic ignition and replace the coils.

A few comments.  I think the person who wrote the instructions did not have English as a first language.  It took a bit of working through the wiring.  Not everything you need is included but what is missing is a couple of electrical connectors to complete the wiring.  Also, the spacers that come with the kit don't seem to be correct for the front end of the coils.  I fitted the kit the night before I went away for two weeks - I travel a lot on business.  I didn't have the connectors so I kind of jury rigged the wiring by just twisting everything together.  I was concerned it wouldn't work but it started first time once I worked out which coil served which two cylinders.  Actually, it started from cold with one hand push of the kick start.  Prior to fitting the electronic ignition, but after switching to the Irridium plugs, it would start this way when warm.

When I get back, I'm going to rig the wiring properly and finish off the installation.  Overall it's been a positive experience and I think the bike will be better for the new ignition.  I would recommend the Pamco from vintagecb750 with the above provisos, to anyone who is fairly practical.

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[Peterwh]

No problem.  When I get back I will re-write the wiring instructions for you and see if I can make a wiring diagram that I can put up on here.  The mechanical instructions are fine, it was just the electrical that took about 30 minutes to understand properly.  Maybe it was just me.  What confused me is that you have to connect two existing wires together and wire them to a single connector on the coil.  We will have to also see if we can work out how to deal with the front coil mounting.  As I said before, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it's the kind of thing you are looking for.

One other small after thought.  There is one wire coming from each of the two triggers that replace the points, that is two wires in total.  These two wires have to go through the hole in the casing and the two wires together were too big to go through the rubber grommet, so now I have an unsealed hole where water could get through.  I'm thinking about sealing it neatly with a bit of silicone sealant and I wondered what anyone on the forum thought?

[markalign]

settles wrote

I'm getting ready to start on my bike for the winter.  The first thing I want to do is to replace the points with an electronic ignition.  I think this would eliminate some of the idle and starting problems I have been having.  I think the gaps aren't right or maybe the spring-advance thingy (industry term) on the points ignition is messed up because after it warms up it purrs like a kitty.  Even if it doesn't clear it up, it's something I want to do just for a little more "modern bike reliability", and it removes that as a potential cause and will alow me to focus one other causes.

That being said, I am trying to figure out which model ignition to buy.  I have a 1978 CB750K.  I am not trying to build a 100hp race machine here, so I can pretty much rule out some of the high dollar models.  I'm at a loss as to what I should be considering to make a wise decision.

Does anyone have any recent experience with the Pamco ignitions?  Is a Dynatek a better part?  How are they for ease of installation?  Do I need to replcae the coils as well?  

I have never worked on a motorcycle ignition but I have ony my various cars and trucks.  So while I'm not COMPLETELY clueless, I'm still pretty much a NOOB!  I look forward to any and all help and offer thanks in advance.

The stock ignition system on a standard 750 is very reliable so clean the carbs first. I bought my 74 750 with a high end ignition system which made me spend endless hours cleaning carbs, my bike always ran on 3 cylinders when cold, it would clear up when hot but condition got worse over time(it always ran better after a carb clean). Turns out the very expensive ignition system was messing around.

[sgtslag]

Regarding the wires through the casing, yes, it will work quite well!  I'd recommend a quick setting, high temperature, RTV silicone, to avoid heat issues down the road.  The engine's oil, in the sump and transmission, can reach 250 F, at highway speeds, which means most of the lower engine can get that hot.

Wrap the wires in electrical tape (thick enough to form a secure wedge, or snug fit), insert them into the hole, and then coat the area with RTV silicone, to form an air-tight seal.  The silicone will also serve to secure everything in place, so that engine vibration will have little, or no effect, on the wires.  It will provide a small amount of strain relief, however, if you pull on the wires, you likely will pull them free -- just re-position, and re-apply the silicone.  Cheers!