Will bad ignitors cause charging problems?

[nyraised]

I found both ignitors melted on a 1980 750F. The bike starts and runs fine but I can't find the fault of the non charging system. So far I put in a new rotor, new stator, new battery, new brushes so I'm at a loss and grasping at strws..let me know if these ignitors can be the source of the dreaded trouble....Thanks

[Re-run]

By ignitors, you mean the cdi boxes? Those are only for ignition. If you still have charging issues, the regulator or rectifier are prime suspects.

[nyraised]

I already put ALL NEW parts in the charging system....rectifier/regulator (same unit correct?) stator, battery and brand new rotor and they all checked out fine...anybody have any other ideas what could be stopping it from charging? I checked all the fuses removed one at a time checked charging...double grounded system..checked all connections I could find for corrosion,,,I'm at a loss...HELP!!

[Re-run]

Ok when you rev your bike to 2500 rpm, what is the voltage at the battery? Get the batt charged and then start the bike and rev to 2500 and take voltage. If you hit atleast 13.5 volts, then charging should be fine.
I just ask as you havent posted anything about voltage or any tests.

[nyraised]

Charged battery ..full charge was about 12.8 revved it up to over 3000 and no change in voltage whatsoever

[Re-run]

OK, so lets look at things. You replaced everything in the charging system. Were they all new parts or junkyard parts?

If I am thinking right, the ignitors are connected to your coils and so only affect ignition and not charging so I think we can discount them.

Since your voltage is not going up, it is all charging system. so lets start back at the beginning.
Download the manual of you have not yet. The manual has the technique for testing both the rotor and stator. Test both these parts fully to make sure they pass. Then test the regulator/rectifier to make sure it passes. It is possible that one of these parts may still be bad, even though it is new.
Also, sometimes the instructions for these parts have wiring errors. It could be as simple as the wiring being incorrect. That leads to the final item, the plastic connectors themselves. These things can look good and yet 1 connector could be getting pushed back in the housing when being plugged in and you may never know it. It would not be unreasonable to say that half the issues with charging are caused by bad connectors or wiring. You could even have a broken wire inside the insulation so all those should be tested.

Electrics are a pain, a serious pain mainly in that it takes forever to test everything.

My order of failure would be
#1 wiring and connectors.
#2 regulator/rectifier
#3 battery
#4 stator
#5 rotor
but in your case, the battery can probably be ruled out.

[nyraised]

Turned out the new rotor I bought was bad...no readings at all over the slip rings..replaced the rotor..now puts out 14.4 v  Thanks for the help

[SteveM]

           

       I HAVE THE EXACT SAME BIKE AND PROPLEM YOU HAD. BECAUSE OF THE DATE THAT YOU POSTED I AM NOT GOING TO TYPE MUCH CAUSE I SUCK AT IT, BUT IF YOU READ THIS PLEASE SEND A RESPONSE. I COULD USE SOME HELP. MY 1980 750F SUPERSPORT ONLY HAS 10K ORIGINAL MILES. I'VE OWNED IT SINCE 1985, IT HAD 3K ON IT WHEN I BOUGHT IT.
     THANKS, STEVE

[nyraised]

Steve, Mined turned out to be a bad rotor, have you checked that (do you know how?) I will try to help you figure it out..My bike runs great now...no probs whatsover (fingers crossed) Check out this video (actually 3 parts) on exactly how to diagnose the charging system...this is what helped me figure it out..step by step instructions, very clear..great videos...if you need some more help let me know
http://honda-cb750-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-troubleshoot-charging-system-td1597455.html

----- Original Message -----

From: [hidden email]

To: [hidden email]

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:00 PM

Subject: Re: Will bad ignitors cause charging problems?

           

       I HAVE THE EXACT SAME BIKE AND PROPLEM YOU HAD. BECAUSE OF THE DATE THAT YOU POSTED I AM NOT GOING TO TYPE MUCH CAUSE I SUCK AT IT, BUT IF YOU READ THIS PLEASE SEND A RESPONSE. I COULD USE SOME HELP. MY 1980 750F SUPERSPORT ONLY HAS 10K ORIGINAL MILES. I'VE OWNED IT SINCE 1985, IT HAD 3K ON IT WHEN I BOUGHT IT.
     THANKS, STEVE

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[nyraised]

If it turns out to be the rotor, don't buy a used one online unless whoever is selling it can tell you what the Ohm reading across the rings are. And they warranty it if it's bad. Best bet is to look in your area for a repair shop for bikes..ask about used rotors and then go there with a multimeter in hand and check the ohms on the used ones yourself....if its too low...forget it...make sure its between 4 and 5 ohms across the slip rings.

[SteveM]

     
       Great, i have a billion questions. Are the " ignitors " the two pieces that are bolted together directly under the seat with wire harnesses comming out of them and potting compound on the inside of them? If so, mine melted all over my battery and i re-potted them. Will the bike run if they are bad? Like yours, my bike runs fine. It just don't charge. What caused them to melt? Age,heat, or electrical malfunction? Also, i have never tore into a m.c. engine and am not sure where or how to begin to remove the rotor, stator, or brushes. I assume that the right side cover has to come off. Do i have to drain the oil? My connector from the stator to the regulator has 3 yellow wires and a black wire and a white wire. Is yours the same? One of the yellow wires is burnt on the reg. side of the connector, right at the connector. Actually melted the plastic a little. As the video stated, there is no test for the regulator, so i guess i'll have to start at the other end. Thank's a million. The vid's are great. Please check this blog occaisionally as i'm probably going to need some guidance.
        Steve

[nyraised]

The CGI's are the ones you describe, however just because they have melted doesn't mean they are bad...mine worked melted too..just age and heat..if the bike starts they are prob not bad..I would suspect it is your rotor..please check the ohms across the bands with a meter like in the video and tell me what it reads. Here is a video on how to remove rotor and check it..this is how I learned...also download the manual for your bike from this forum..great to have on hand. Here is video how to check the stator with a meter...check both stator and rotor and let me or anybody on this forum know what the readings are. Here is a link to a BRAND NEW votage relulator / rectifier for ONLY $50 most go for over a $100 and $60 for a used one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB750-CB750F-CB1000-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-/280643401930?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4157a678ca

[SteveM]

   
 Wow, isn't technology great? I really appreciate your guidance through this process. I'll get that apart and let you know the outcome in a couple of days. Thanks again. I would like to post a picture of my bike on this blog or whatever you call it. Sometime i'll take the time to figure it out.
       Steve

[SteveM]

        Bingo, the rotor is putting out less than 2 ohms in the bike. The stator checked out fine. The gasket may not make it. Before i purchase a new rotor i will remove it and test it out of the bike. I checked out the stator at the connector.
        Steve

[nyraised]

Well I'm glad u figured it out. Be careful about buying a used one...remember to check the ohms. A new one can run a few hundred bucks but here is a link to a service that totally rebuilds your rotor like new for only $89 which is a pretty good deal. I paid $120 for a good used one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-cb650-cb750-cb900-cb1000-rotor-rebuild-service-/180611949113?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0d4fa239

[nyraised]

To add a pic of your bike is easy!! In the reply box just click i"insert image" at teh top and browse for the pic u want to post from your computer...thats about it...simple

[SteveM]

    Today, i'm glad that i am a machinist and have access to equiptment and stock. I couldn't find a M18 by 1.5 bolt anywhere. How conveinent for Honda. So i will make my own rotor removal bolt so i can get on with this project before the snow flies. I am going to send my rotor to the rebuild company that you sent the link to. I will put a picture up soon.
            Thanx, Steve

[nyraised]

You can get the pullers very easy here are a couple of links

http://www.z1enterprises.com/Flywheel-Puller-18mm-x-15mm-RH-Internal-Hollow-Honda-2175.aspx


http://www.bikebandit.com/dennis-stubblefield-flywheel-rotor-puller-18mm-x-1-5?WT.mc_id=1484958&CAWELAID=338431369

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flywheel-Rotor-Puller-KZ550-KZ400-KZ650-18mm-x-1-5-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ170690357208


http://compare.ebay.com/like/170687798210?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

http://www.amazon.com/FLYWHEEL-MOTORCYCLE-following-reference-ordering/dp/B004MB8ZBY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1316563353&sr=1-1


 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IGNITION-ROTOR-HONDA-PULLER-CB-750-1100-SUPERSPORT-900-/320748520292?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aae1a0364

[rich]

The rear axle bolt thread matches the rotor thread. Just screw it in (put the bike in 5th gear and hold down the break, it helps to have a friend sit on the bike and press on the break and hold the bike steady) tightly, but not so tight you wreck the threads, about as tight as you can with a 1/2" ratchet or box end wrench (no breaker bar). Once you get it tight, hit the end of the bolt with a hammer, again not hard, but a good blow. It might take a hit or two but the rotor will just fall off. The first video in the series above shows the guy using a puller but it's the same process with axle. Just don't get carried away and bend it! Then you're shopping for a puller & an axle.

[SteveM]

  When i tried to upload the picture from " my pictures " , below is what appears. Good tid bit on the axle bolt being the same size as the threads on the rotor. I'll let you know how my C.N.C. made remover works.
           Steve