ethanol????

[wes]

a new gas station up the road advertises ethanol free gas. guarantees better performance,better mileage. any truth to this? i allready use the high octane only. should i use the ethanol free gas? will using differnt fuels harm anything, foul the plugs?

[sgtslag]

Ethanol is alcohol; it lowers mileage, boosts the octane, and increases the engine temperature -- your engine runs hotter on Ethanol gasoline; flexi-fuel vehicle owners report running Ethanol (E-85) lowers mileage, and it also lowers cost at the pump, however, with pure gasoline (0% Ethanol), they pay more at the pump, but they get higher mileage -- they break even for costs per mile.

Some folks claim that Ethanol gasoline will harm rubber gaskets and hoses on vehicles which were not designed to run on it, but mine work just fine, 5+ years, on 10% Ethanol (most common type of gasoline available everywhere in the USA) -- any higher, and they will suffer damage, according to everything I've read/heard.  Pure gasoline will not harm any gasoline engine -- this is the fuel they were designed to burn.  Ethanol gasoline came later, and at 10%, it will not harm most gasoline-only engines (motorcycles, lawnmowers, boat motors, etc.).  If you can find a pump pushing pure gasoline, you will pay more at the pump, but it will likely even out with the mileage gained, and your engine will run cooler.  On air-cooled engines, this will be more important, but only an oil temperature gauge will demonstrate whether your engine is running too hot:  conventional oils break down into carbon sludge, above 250 F; synthetic oils break down at 450+ F, but your engine's gaskets will break down long before your synthetic oil will...  If your oil temperature runs above 250 F, regardless of whether it is conventional (mineral/dino), or synthetic, your engine is running too hot!  Time to look at fuels (no Ethanol), and possible an oil cooler (mine lowered the oil temperatures from 250 F, to 210 F, same conditions/load:  highway speed, two-up, with full saddlebags).

With regards to octane, it only helps prevent pre-detonation when running higher octanes.  If your engine does not ping on 87 octane gasoline, then you can run it safely.  If your engine pings, then increase the octane of your fuel until the pinging stops.  Premium gasoline has no other effect on performance.  The butt-dynomometer lies -- that is its natural language.  Sorry.

Winter temperatures (much lower, say below 40 F) can increase the pre-detonation in gasoline engines, so you may need to run higher octane gasoline seasonally.  Pre-detonation will, eventually, burn a hole in one, or more, pistons...  If you have pinging, bump up the octane on your fuel in that vehicle ASAP.  High compression engines may require higher octane gasoline, to avoid pre-detonation, but most engines run just fine on 87 octane gasoline.  YMMV, but beware the butt-dyno...  Cheers!

[wes]

heres to ya sgt.

[Piute]

If your really strong on being sure of no beer in your gas be sure that it is not a multi pump handle type (were you can take your pick beer or no beer,ever notice how diesel is always on a different handle ??Because theres the last persons preference in the line??Same goes with octane your not getting all high octane if the person before you got low??Read a big wright up Matt King (fore-more publisher of Car Craft)did ...Piute..so be nice and let the guy on the H.D. go 1st on the high octane,,l.o.l.

[Re-run]

I second much of what slag said. I find I do get better mpg with gas then ethanol. So, while I pay 10c more, I actually save a little. Recently went on a long ride and on gas, I got almost 50 mpg. A couple places I had to use ethanol and it dropped a good 5 mpg.

The other thing, not so much related to ethanol, is the use of high octane fuels. All high octane fuels do is burn slower thus reducing pre ignition and pinging, allowing you to run higher compression or advanced timing.
The issue is with this slow burning, it can build up extra carbon in your combustion chamber as it is not burning fully. If you have a stock bike, unless the manual says so, stick with as low of octane as you can without pinging.

[shinyribs]

Okay,if i am wrong/you disagree about anything i say just disregard.I'm not a chemist but do have some experience with methanol/ethanol. Both are forms of alcohol.Ethanol from corn?Methanol from methane?Not sure about that but i do know this.Some of our race engines run on straight methanol.When you have compression ratios 16:1 +,the  octane level needed in gasoline becomes very expensive to buy. 120 octane gas is about $10-12 a gallon and methanol has just raised to $3.50 a gallon.But as far as temperature goes,our front engine rails run dry blocks,meaning no cooling systems.Since you are seated straddled the tranny and directly behind the engine itself we don't like to run water in them.Burn/scalding hazard.Since there is no cooling system we run straight methanol because it COOLS the engine as it runs.Some times the blowers/intakes will even sweat or frost up if cool enough at night.BUT,running straight methanol,the engine consumes 75-100% more fuel per pass than on gasoline.IF TUNED CORRECTLY!The btu capacity is lesser than gasoline and therefore requires more fuel.So,that being said,if you remove a portion of your gasoline and replace it with either form of alcohol (methanol or ethanlo)your motor will run effectively lean.Creating heat,of course.To correct the issue you MUST richen the fuel mixture and therefore consume more fuel which equals poor fuel mileage in comparison.So the truth about alcohol,whether you are using ethanol or methanol,it takes more to get the same job done AND if not jetted properly will run hot just like any other lean condition.My opinion? Alcohol sucks,smells bad and i do not like it.

[shinyribs]

As far as octane goes,any un-needed octane is slowing you down. Octane refers to how fast the fuel ignites and is consumed,called burn rate.Slower burn rate obviously needed for higher compressions,as SGtSlag stated,but a low comp motor with excessive octane will suffer.A few months back my usual 110 octane i use in the Olds was not available i was forced to buy/use 114 octane.It cost me 0.20 seconds in the 1/8 mile and i had to increase ignition timing 3.5 degrees to recover it,which created low speed detonation problems.Detonation and pre-ignition are not the same,though they sound the same while occurring.I've said to much already.Later!

[free2ride]

these babies were built for regular leaded gas. 'course we ain't gonna get leaded any more, but I've been told [and I trust the guy implicitly, as he works exclusively on old bikes] that running regular is best.

fwiw

[shinyribs]

leaded cushioned the valves on the seats,of you all know that.Leads rocks.   I miss lead

[TOOLS1]

Ethanol just plain SUCKS!!!!!
TOOLS

[Re-run]

On these bikes, the valve seats are hardened. Seems the japanese knew lead was going away.

[shinyribs]

Cool! did not know that.

[wes]

soo if i understand what everyone is sayin is that the regular octane gas without ethanol is best.

[sgtslag]

Yes, 87 octane, ethanol-free gasoline is best, if you can get it.  Otherwise, 87 octane gasoline, with 10% ethanol, is usable.  This assumes your engine is not pinging!  If it pings, increase the octane rating until it stops.

[Piute]

Ethanol just plain SUCKS!!!!!
TOOLS
  Amen..Give me back my Union 76 101 octane

[wes]

what is pingin? i do feel like it sputters some when runnin at lower rpms. i put another 120 miles on today. still learnin the feel of the bike.

[LukeM]

engine knock sounds like a rapping noise, which is kinda what it is: the engine is pre-igniting the fuel, which rattles the drivetrain.  Pinging is more like there's little pebbles in the combustion chamber.  Light rattles.  As long as the pinging is not severe, it won't hurt the engine.  You can test this by going up one or two levels in the octane rating of your fuel. If you're running regular, try midgrade and/or premium.  If it goes away with the higher octane, I recommend you stay at that level.  Here's a handy video I found on Youtube.com

Sometimes excessive carbon buildup on the piston domes can cause pinging and knocking.  These deposits can be cleaned off in a few different ways.  The safest may be by using Seafoam Spray.  Back in the day, we used to just use carb cleaner in a spray can and mist it over the open carb throat, then douse it until the engine died.  Wait 5-10 minutes, then restart the engine.

I hope this helps.
Luke M

[shinyribs]

The rattling sound,alot of people say:"That bad gas is making my valves rattle". Oooooh no,that is not what it is.Nothing but loose valves can make valves rattle. Preignition:overly advanced timing ..  Detonation:fuel combusting from ignition source other than spark plugs. i.e.: a too hot of heat range plug glowing in the combustion chamber,oil deposits glowing in the chamber.head gasket overhanging and also glowing in the chamber...etc... OR: Too low of octane and fuel is firing off of compression alone,just like a deisil engine. That rattling/pinging sound is a result of the piston still on its way to TDC but the,by either preignition or detonation,the fuel charge gets ignited.That is the sound of the connecting rod being hammerd down into the crank and bearing and hemmoraging all of the oil out of the way.Not good.Also ,if there is any slack in the wrist pin it will rattle also.Anywhere there is slack,and oil clearances are considered slack even though they are neccesarry,between the crank and the top of the piston,gets knocked together when this happens.The crank is still trying to push the rod and piston up,but the explosion is trying to push the piston down at the same time.Who wins???The explosion.Who loses??? Your wallet. Trust me on this.When you got 500 cu. in. making 1,000 hp screaming thru open headers directly beside your head(see exhaust in photo),you cant hear that little pinging or knocking.But i have definitely pulled out rod and main bearings that resemble a penny left on a  a rail road track. If you got fuel knock,raise your octane or retard your timing.You dont want to let it go.Not trying to scare anyone,but that is exactly what that sound is

[Daddyman]

No blower is cool. I have a friend that has a sb383 in a rail with mp fuel injection and no juice, he runs in the high 7's all day and runs the same motor all season.  Cool to see people out running other people with just motor.

[shinyribs]

Blowers whine    turbos suck    bottles are for babies!!!  There is only one thing better than cubic inches...more of them   glad to see im not the only one on here into drag racing.     its not gonna be real fast, im sure,but i believe i'll bracket race the honda when i get it done

p.s.  in order to be honest...i am spraying my current motor in the Olds.  770 hp on nuts alone and 250 on the NOS    not happy about it