1980 CB750K Cafe Project (hopefully)

[TOOLS1]

I guess I should have been clearer. I meant to check/set everything else before going back into the engine. Carbs being out of sync, or a vacuum leak could cause a high/rough idle. Also too rich of jetting (which is very common with the crapy mikekundy carbs that come in those "pre jetted" kits.)
TOOLS

[Griffin]

I was pretty sure that cam needed to be moved a tooth and so I wanted to do it to be sure that part was good.

I did get is started again, the number 1 plug was fouled.  I was also able to see in the window with the strobe light and hold the throttle.  The strobe is showing me the I and the pointer aligned.  I'm a bit unsure if it should be on the I or the F. The manual says 1.4 I F and the picture makes it look like it's pointing to the F. I guess I should retard it a bit so it's more on the F or in between right?

[Griffin]

So retarding the timing caused it to backfire.  I have it back now.  At this point I think the timing is good. I'm guessing it's jetted too rich like you said.  Guess I'll be getting some new jets and fiddling with them now too. 

I was feeling very defeated awhile ago, it's been a lot of work and a long process.  I have off this week and really thought I'd be out riding this thing.  Such is life. I feel like I'm close, worse case scenario I'll take it to a shop near by that does good work. They might even have the jets laying around.  

I will pull that cam holder and put in a helicoil after it's running right.  Maybe I can tap it in place without even taking the cover off.  Although it's a tough angle, one of the inside ones, pretty sure it's better to pull it out and do the job.  It stripped right as 6 pounds too.  I heard the torque wrench click and felt the bolt spin right at the same time. I feel like every time you install that cover there's a good chance one will strip.

Looks like i"m done for today. No jets to try out and I'm out of ideas. At this point, I'm just wearing out the starting and battery trying to start this thing every 15 minutes. 

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Griffin [via Honda CB750'S] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I was pretty sure that cam needed to be moved a tooth and so I wanted to do it to be sure that part was good.

I did get is started again, the number 1 plug was fouled.  I was also able to see in the window with the strobe light and hold the throttle.  The strobe is showing me the I and the pointer aligned.  I'm a bit unsure if it should be on the I or the F. The manual says 1.4 I F and the picture makes it look like it's pointing to the F. I guess I should retard it a bit so it's more on the F or in between right?

Dave Arnold
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[shinyribs]

There's also an air-gap on the pulsers that need to be set. If too far apart it will have trouble finding signal

The index mark is just a sharp point that extends down from the engine case itself.

[Griffin]

Could this be caused by not enough gap between the cam lobes and valve shims?

On Jul 24, 2016 10:36 PM, "shinyribs [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's also an air-gap on the pulsers that need to be set. If too far apart it will have trouble finding signal

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.~George Washington

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[Griffin]

I don't seem to have clearance between the valve shims and buckets. Could this be the problem and cause bad throttle response as well as no idle. If so any suggestions on buying shims?

[TOOLS1]

Did you download the factory service manual from the manuals thread here, and read it? You should have set the valve clearances when you installed the cams. Are you checking the clearance with the cam lobe pointing away from the bucket/shim? Do you have the tool for changing shims? As for buying shims, a lot of shops will do an exchange on shims.
TOOLS  

[Griffin]

I did and I have a hard copy. I just didn't have the shims and in my impatience to get done I choose not to do it. That was stupid I know. I'll do a compression check. I think they might be too tight and maybe not closing all the way. The compression will be low if that's the case and I'll have to start swapping out shims.

I'll know more after the test just don't know if that could be the cause of all the issues or not. It will help me to rule out one more thing though.

Thanks for the suggestion of trading shims I'll call around and see if anyone here does that.

On Jul 25, 2016 1:27 PM, "TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Did you download the factory service manual from the manuals thread here, and read it? You should have set the valve clearances when you installed the cams. Are you checking the clearance with the cam lobe pointing away from the bucket/shim? Do you have the tool for changing shims? As for buying shims, a lot of shops will do an exchange on shims.
TOOLS  

Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."

1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)

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[Griffin]

Compression test on cylinders 1-4 comes up 80,80,80,48  Makes sense cylinder four head pipe didn't feel as hot as the others. I'm guessing the valves aren't closing all the way, so much for lapping them if they aren't ever closing.  Let's hope it's just the valves and not something more serious. 

Going to pull the cover and recheck the gaps, locate some shims and start swapping them out. I think I'll go buy a micro-meter too.  I read a few forum thread on here about valve clearance and it looks like I'd be wise to measure each one that needs to be swapped in order to figure out the proper size to put in.

No sense doing anything else until this problem is solved. 

What a lesson this has been, if I ever do this again I'll do it right the first time. The carbs might still be a problem but it's impossible to tell until everything else it right. That was something else I think I picked up from one of threads on here. 

Strangely I do feel better about the whole thing.  It's frustrating to be out of ideas and not know what to do. At least I have a plan now. 

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Dave Arnold <[hidden email]> wrote:

I did and I have a hard copy. I just didn't have the shims and in my impatience to get done I choose not to do it. That was stupid I know. I'll do a compression check. I think they might be too tight and maybe not closing all the way. The compression will be low if that's the case and I'll have to start swapping out shims.

I'll know more after the test just don't know if that could be the cause of all the issues or not. It will help me to rule out one more thing though.

Thanks for the suggestion of trading shims I'll call around and see if anyone here does that.

On Jul 25, 2016 1:27 PM, "TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Did you download the factory service manual from the manuals thread here, and read it? You should have set the valve clearances when you installed the cams. Are you checking the clearance with the cam lobe pointing away from the bucket/shim? Do you have the tool for changing shims? As for buying shims, a lot of shops will do an exchange on shims.
TOOLS  

Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."

1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)

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NAML

[TOOLS1]

For what you are doing, a Harbor Freight digital caliper will be just fine (it is what I use.) You will also need a set of feeler gauges and the tool for holding the buckets down to remove/replace the shims. Also the shims are marked for size. This marking should ve facing down towards the bucket.
TOOLS

[shinyribs]

Before you go to a bike shop or eBay and pay way too much for valve shims, search this forum for info. IIRC They are 25mm od shims and many other vehicles use them. Auto parts stores should stock them for way less. Anything CB750 is bringing top dollar nowadays due to the cafe craze.

[Griffin]

Thanks there is a local machine shop that might have them. They are closed now so I'll call tomorrow. Otherwise I think I'll have a shop do it for me. I believe they will swap for mine and install them. Not sure how much more that would cost over buying the stuff I need to do it myself.

The bucket depressor is 17.00 and I'd need a micrometer, they are 20.0 0 or so I think. The thing is I'd have to buy that stuff to even figure out what size shims to buy.  Yesterday that was my plan but having someone else do it seems to make sense for this part of the project.

On Jul 26, 2016 5:03 PM, "shinyribs [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Before you go to a bike shop or eBay and pay way too much for valve shims, search this forum for info. IIRC They are 25mm od shims and many other vehicles use them. Auto parts stores should stock them for way less. Anything CB750 is bringing top dollar nowadays due to the cafe craze.

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.~George Washington

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NAML

[Griffin]

Anyone every try to glue the cam gasket to the cam cover. Getting it to line up is tough so I'm trying a bit of super 77 spray glue to stick it to the cover. I didn't want to use anything thick that might get into the engine. Hoping just a thin coat of spray glue will do the trick. We'll see when I put it back on. I got that newly stripped hole helicoil'd.

The machine shop only had Ford and Chevy shims. Hoping to get that straightened out tomorrow. Going to visit a local shop I've used before. They should have what I need.

Murray from Murray's Carbs is resyncing my carbs on a test engine. Had a good talk with him. Great guy. I'm greatfull he offered to do that after I messed with them. granted my engine needs to be in good running order for them to work. Feeling hopeful!

[TOOLS1]

I use weather strip adhesive to hold the rubber gasket to the valve cover while installing them. As for Ford, and Chevy shims, as long as they are the same diameter, and the thickness, and nobody tells them they are in a Honda engine, they will work just fine. I am glad Murray is a great guy, because unless he is syncing the carbs on your engine that you are going to install them on he is wasting your time and money. Every engine is different, that is why you sync the carbs on the engine they are going on.
TOOLS

[Griffin]

I hear you about the carbs but he offered to do at no charge so I took him up on it. It will take some time and a few bucks in shipping. Hopefully my engine issues will be fixed by the time they come back.

Great tip on the weather strip adhesive! Spray glue didn't hold.

Checked the clearance today with a set of feelers.

All but 1 gap is under .006mm, a few are less than .0015 or are touching. I made a chart to document each one.

No worries if I end up with Ford or Chevy parts it will be our secret!

Honda still has some 25mm OD shims. I saw 2.55mm I believe maybe others on an OEM lookup site. 

On Jul 27, 2016 7:50 PM, "TOOLS1 [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I use weather strip adhesive to hold the rubber gasket to the valve cover while installing them. As for Ford, and Chevy shims, as long as they are the same diameter, and the thickness, and nobody tells them they are in a Honda engine, they will work just fine. I am glad Murray is a great guy, because unless he is syncing the carbs on your engine that you are going to install them on he is wasting your time and money. Every engine is different, that is why you sync the carbs on the engine they are going on.

TOOLS

Life is not about the number of breaths, you take, but the moments that take your breath away.
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
Never confuse education for intelligence.
Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
I just can't imagine what could go wrong.
No fire? No explosions? So whats the point of your story?
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
It couldn't be done, but the darn fool didn't know it, and did it anyway.
We all got problems. Ksharp
I like vintage bikes because they take me away from the clutter of technology that I work with everyday and back to a simpler time of mechanical elegance and simplicity.. "ninadm"
Darkwing Duck: The worst part of public transportation is the Public.
"That is awesome shit there" Re-Run
"Fear nothing, attack everything" Eric Berry
" Oh, you read that on the internet? Clearly it IS a massive problem. Of course it CAN’t be normal operation."

1976 CB 750-A X 2
1977 CB 750-A X 4
1977 CB 750-K
1976 CB 750 F
1981 CB 750
1966 Kawasaki SG 250
1981 KZ 750 LTD
1973 CB 350
1979 CM 185 Twinstar
1982 Honda XL 80
South of Eden (Kansas City MO)

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NAML

[Griffin]

12 of the shims got replaced today. They're all in spec now.

[Griffin]

Finally got to ride it!  Those clubman bars sure do stretch you out but man is it fun to ride.  I was worried about lowering the front 2 inches but I didn't notice any over steer so I think we're good there.

Carbs came back today and after putting it all back together it started right up and idled.  It did stall shutting off the second choke though.  So I set the timing using a strobe light which actually helped the idle a bit.  Had to add a 1/2 turn on each idle screw and we're in business. Double checked the timing again, got it right on the line around 1100 rpm and I took it for a spin.

It's running really well. Looks like it's not charging the battery though.  It's on the charger now.  I never drove it far before taking it apart so I'm not sure if it was charging before but I turned it off and couldn't get it to turn over again after riding for 30 minutes or so today.  I did let it idle for awhile before turning it off though.  I'll check the voltage while running to see what we've got.

[Truck]

Check your connectors. My 900 wasn't charging when I got it, cleaned all the connectors and made sure they fight together good and no problems since then. That will be my 1st step from now on.

[Griffin]

I think we're good. Pushed on the connectors attached to the rectifier and it's 12.5 at idle and 14.5 or more with some revs.

On Aug 1, 2016 2:29 PM, "Truck [via Honda CB750'S]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Check your connectors. My 900 wasn't charging when I got it, cleaned all the connectors and made sure they fight together good and no problems since then. That will be my 1st step from now on.

It's only illegal if you get caught.

If at first you don't succeed, use more lighter fluid

95% of Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road... The other 5% made it home.

New Baltimore, Va '82 CB900c, 1980 CB985F/K 'Mutt"

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NAML

[Griffin]

Final pic with the seat cushion on. Not bad for my first time trying to upholster anything.